Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network, shows that help you go beyond education. Find all our shows in the bepodcastnetwork.

com. I'm Gene Tavernetti, the host for this podcast. And my goal for this episode, like all episodes is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching or coaching. A quick reminder, we will be sharing only stuff that works, no cliches, no buzzwords. I am very happy today to have as my guest, a person who I had an opportunity to work with for about a year and a half.

And that's Paul Dietrich. Paul Dietrich is an academic coach at Fairview Middle School in the Gonzales [00:01:00] Unified School District in the Salinas Valley of California. He brings 12 years of diverse educational experience, including a decade in the classroom, and his journey encompasses teaching math for two years at the high school level, eight years at the middle school level, and teaching computer fundamentals.

Paul is known for his enthusiasm in a Embracing new tools, strategies, and best practices. Paul constantly seeks out ways to elevate and transform the teaching and learning experience. his role as a member of the Board of Directors for Monterey Bay Q, and certification as a Google Certified Champion Innovator, exemplifies commitment to staying at the forefront of educational technology and AI.

Bye. Paul was recognized for his commitment in education in 2021 as the Monterey Bay Q Outstanding Teacher of the Year and the Teacher of the Year at Fairview Middle School. His passion for educational [00:02:00] technology and fostering a sense of belonging is inspired by his amazing and supportive wife, Diana Dietrich, and his two young boys, Levi and Liam.

Paul, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Gene. It's very happy and excited to be here.

Well, great. I'm going to do something a little bit different today, is I'm going to tell everybody How we met and a little bit of a story of my first impression of Paul Dietrich.

All right, here we go.

So, I was contracted to work with the Fairview Middle School where you were working. And when we met, you were still in the classroom. I don't think you had met, yet been selected to be the instructional coach. And I had been in your classroom a couple times very briefly just walking through and your description of your, what we had in your introduction there was very accurate in what I saw in your classroom.

Kids were very excited. There was a lot of stuff going on. I [00:03:00] think I happened to be in during one of your computer classes, maybe a coding class but kids were very excited. There was a lot of action. And I was hired to come in to do explicit instruction, teacher directed instruction. And I remember you, I could, I even remember where you were sitting in the training and all I knew is here's this very bright guy and I'm not sure whether he buys any of this at all.

And so, and then a few months later, I find out you are the instructional coach who has been hired to work with me to present this explicit instruction to the teachers. So, so, what was your feelings about it initially when, because this looked a little bit different. It seemed a little bit different to me than how you were, your standard operating procedure was.

Yes.

no, yeah, I think I think for me so I've primarily taught math. That was been my main subject of focus and computer fundamentals is [00:04:00] a class that I've helped, you know, create when I, first came to the middle school and then it kind of disappeared for a number of years. And then my last couple of years, actually, I think in the classroom, that's when we, that's when we brought it back.

But I think My views and perspective on instruction, what I think that looks like in the classroom, I think has definitely evolved over time, since when I very first began to, to now. And I've always been an advocate, a fan, however you want to explain it, to trying to make math class in particular, as fun and exciting as possible.

So I know in the case of. It's, you know, we have to do it this way and it's within a certain amount of time and it's this and then this and in my head, I'm thinking, well, I want kids to explore math. It's creative. It's fun. And for some reason, this doesn't seem to align with my beliefs.

Well, and I appreciated your openness, or at least [00:05:00] your, yeah, I appreciate, I appreciated your openness because what I had an opportunity to do with you is to go through a lot of coaching cycles, a lot of lesson planning, a lot of discussion afterwards about what we saw in instruction. And I always wondered, God, is Paul buying this?

This is what I was thinking to myself, is Paul buying this? Because in an instructional coach, it's tough, and you have to believe what you're telling people. And then I don't remember what day it was, but I remember coming back from a lesson, and we were talking about the lesson we had just observed.

And you had some feedback that you were, you telling me what you had seen and it was as if my words came out of your mouth and I thought, okay, grasshopper, you know, I don't know what you're going to do when I'm gone, but we're seeing things the same way. And the reason that I'm spending so much time talking about this is because, [00:06:00] Teachers are in so many silos now.

You know, there, there are the tech people, there are the traditional people, there are, whatever they are, they're in silos. And every, everything that we do has some, something good. You know, something good. So I didn't, I don't know if I said, asked you, let you know that I was going to ask you this, but where are you now with regard to the explicit instruction and what we had talked about for the time that I worked with you?

You know, and in the time that we've worked together I've brought it up at different times. It's kind of throughout the year or years with our staff and it's actually coming or it's being brought up a lot more recently now at the beginning of this year because we have two new staff members actually three new staff members at the site.

And so I think it's going to be very interesting because those staff members range from being absolutely completely new, brand new to the classroom, to more of a veteran [00:07:00] teacher. And what we have at the district or the site is this, um, the GRR model, the gradual release of responsibility model is the official slash unofficial template for lesson planning.

But in our work with you doing the FAST framework at Fairview I think it's gonna be really beneficial and fun to start talking about it now at the beginning of the year with these teachers. And I've actually, just today actually, I spent a meeting and with our brand new to the profession teacher, and we went through a lesson of what he's gonna do on Monday.

So Monday is Observation Day.

All right, great. Oh it's exciting. It's one of the most fun things to do is be able to sit down with a teacher and brainstorm about the lesson that They are going to teach that they're responsible for. So let's go back a little bit and talk about coaching. When I met you, it was your, you were brand new as a coach.

You the person who preceded you, I think left in the middle of the year and the position was open. And as I said, in the introduction you were actually teacher [00:08:00] of the year before you left the classroom. So tell me, what was the most unexpected thing that you encountered as you became in your role as a coach?

Yeah, no, I think I managed it just like right on time. I think I'd say now I have to think back because this is I believe this is probably my now like my 13th year in education, my third year as coach. And so I think, so I don't have to go back. I think when I left, I think I left on a high note because that was my teacher of the year. But my initial thoughts of coaching was, without really kind of noticing or knowing lot of stuff that might go behind it. I had some ideas of what it might entail. But definitely as a brand new coach, my, my actual worry before even applying to the position was, what am I going to do with all this time in the day?

Because I'm not thinking about it's like, No, I was like, [00:09:00] I'm thinking about my, I don't think, am I actually going to be in, you know, period one, then period two, and all the way to period six for every hour of the day? Like, what? Like, I don't think so. Like, what am I going to be doing all day? But no, it definitely turned out to be a lot different.

And I wasn't sitting back twiddling my thumbs, that's for sure.

So did you have, I know I worked with you, and that was one of the things that that was my One of the caveats that I have in working with the district is I'm going to be sure that I'm working with an administrator and or a coach. So, so you were with me the entire time when we were doing coaching cycles, and that's what we focused on.

Had you had any other training? Was any other formal training as a coach that the district? provided or wanted you to go through?

The only the one that I went to, and I have to remember when this was, I want to say this was before. I started working with you. I think I might have gone through, I would have already gone [00:10:00] through, your first year when you, after the first year started working with us. But afterward, I actually had gone through, the district provided me with going to Monterey County Office of Ed and doing their cognitive coaching series.

But that's been the only, like, official coaching sessions that I've gone through.

Okay, did you have, does the district, other than when I was there, did they provide any other coaching for you or is there a coaching pathway, I guess is what I'm asking, that you go through, like teachers go through an induction program or anything? Is there any expectation of that from the district or is there anything that you have done subsequent that you felt would be beneficial?

You know, I think the, there wasn't, at least in the time that I became a coach, there wasn't necessarily anything in place by the district to, and I guess in a way, coaching the coaches. We've had coaches in the past but I don't know if [00:11:00] there were any, specific trainings or programs that they had gone through.

But I know since I've become a coach, we've had talks not necessarily been kind of placed on the back burner, but we've had talks about coming up with programs or procedures and protocols, the folders on Google drive to start compiling all these really important things and documents and responsibilities, list of responsibilities.

That would, should be in place if, for the next person in this position.

Okay, and you were able, and as you do that's based on your experience now and the experience of the other coaches,

That's correct.

but it wasn't there for you. You're

No.

the next, okay.

was, yeah, jumped in, you know, learn how to swim, you get pushed into a pool.

Yeah, I don't think, I don't think that's much different than a lot of places, but one of the things that always come up when we talk to, when we talk to coaches is if they had been a teacher at the site. [00:12:00] where they're now coaching. How was that? Was that more difficult than you thought?

There wasn't a problem? What was your views on that?

No I think it, I mean, it's overall, it's actually been a really good experience and actually even kind of going back a second I feel like even though there wasn't necessarily steps or policies or protocols in place for me to really learn the coaching world through the district. I've actually been really happy with the fact that I've actually received a lot of support for, you know, getting advice.

Our current vice principal, for example, she's, she was been a coach for many years. And so, you know, people like her in our district have been really really key people to help me become the coach that I am today or learn that coaching world. And To the current question of being a coach at the school that you've taught at that.

Yeah, that's a story, isn't it? That's an experience that we can kind of get into, because I know in our conversations we've talked about, you know, it's interesting just because people may or they will see you in a different light. I think in [00:13:00] different districts, Ours being one of them I feel like a lot of coaches are sometimes seen as pseudo admin and, you know, maybe no, no fault to their own, for example.

Right. But I think for me, it was really important to really share with the staff that I've been working with really closely as colleagues for the last 10 years, I guess at that, or 10 years at that point in the classroom was that I'm not evaluative in any sort of way. I'm really there as a partner, really there to be as a brainstorm partner.

But I knew going into it that, that, that would take time. And even to this day, I think it's still taking time to really have have people see me as. Oh, like this person's really here to help and, not have any other intentions about it.

Well, I think a couple things in your situation that I think may have been helpful in that number one You were seen as a successful teacher [00:14:00] how successful you were still like the teacher of the year before you left because so many Teachers who go into coaching other teachers look at them and say oh, they just want to get out, you know They were tired of it.

They didn't want to do it. But you were you know, kind of at the top of your game let's say to use A cliché that I don't like to use, that I don't like to use, but I think that may have been helpful. One of the things that, that we talked about that I know we had several discussions about was initially your, I don't want to say hesitancy, but I can't think of a better word at this point to work with teachers in content areas outside of math. How was that for you initially? How do you feel about that now?

I, well, I feel much better about it now. But I, I know the um, no I, I think the main issue that I've, had my biggest hesitancy about working with teachers outside of my own content area was the fact that me going into those conversations with them, you know, I'm not an [00:15:00] expert by any means.

And for me to lead them through the process of, you know, thinking about and designing a lesson with a fast framework, like in my mind, I would think, okay, I need to know their content basically, so I can help them fill in the gaps. And That was probably the most uncomfortable thing for me was just because I knew I didn't have that knowledge and you know, if you know, first impressions make a big statement and I just, I didn't want to appear right from the get go as someone who just doesn't know what they're talking about.

But I had, I say, I had, I also had you as my mentor. So when I would see you working with our teachers of all these different, you know, grade levels and content areas. You know, I always had, you know, I was thinking like, man, like he's, Gene's got this down, he has an answer and a solution for everything, and I have to always keep in my mind, it's like, okay, he's been doing this for a really long time.

But now, after my conversations with you and working with different [00:16:00] teachers, It's really made a big difference by it's it's really resonated with me, the fact that there to help teaching strategies, good classroom techniques, and good classroom strategies. That's just, it's good teaching no matter, What subject area you're talking about,

Absolutely, I absolutely agree because I think there are, as you're working with teachers, and as you mentioned, you know, you're partnering with them to help them in any way you can. And in most cases, working with beginning teachers, working with veteran teachers, it's not initially about the content. It is there are some very basic things, and one of the things that I think is difficult for new coaches, and that is, Getting, having the opportunity to see every teacher now that you've heard in the staff room and their classrooms may not exactly look like they should describe it, but you know, I've tried.

I've tried to say this in a [00:17:00] diplomatic way, but there are some teachers that need help. And. You can't unsee some of those things, I guess is what I'm saying when you become a coach.

Yeah, no I think that's definitely true. I, one of the things that I really enjoyed or, and still enjoy about coaching, I should say, is that just the, that ability to be able to go into different classrooms to see what teachers, how they're teaching, what's on their walls, you know, what they have to offer.

Because I, I think I've always found that. really valuable when I was in the classroom because I would go in and decide, Oh, you know, I really liked that. I want to, you know, take that idea or no, I really don't like that. I'm not going to do things that way, but it's, yeah, no, it's it's really interesting that ability to see, you know, what happens either in the staff lounge versus what you see in the classroom and making those connections.

Well, one of the things that was interesting when I was working with you at your site, was veteran teachers. [00:18:00] really expressing to you, to me, and we would encourage them to, you know, to continue to express them to the administration, that they really wanted to support younger teachers. They wanted to help.

And they felt just the opposite of what you hear in some places. Oh, you know, we're being taken advantage of and, but no, they expressed You know, bring teachers in, let us, whatever we can do to help. And was that surprising to you? But, and before you answer the, you, we probably know the teacher that I'm thinking of, and it was one of the teachers who the administration was kind of leery.

of actually meeting with us to do a coaching cycle. You know who I'm talking about.

I believe so.

Yeah. Any thoughts on working with the veteran teachers? And not only your work, but Anything that you might advise to other coaches, you know, who might be hesitant to work with veteran [00:19:00] teachers.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think the when thinking about or hearing veteran teachers saying, you know, we want to be used to utilize us, you know, we're a really good source of information. We have a lot of historical context. I think that's really important. I think it's also really important that's voiced and that schools have some way to be able to leverage that knowledge and that experience. with with their new teachers. There's you know, we send so many people out on to conferences, for example, to learn new skills when a lot of the skills we have at home. And you know, maybe that's something that's good to look into now since, you know, budgets aren't looking so good.

Yeah.

But in my experience with working with veteran teachers compared to brand new teachers, you know, the brand new teacher that's, it's almost. It's very straightforward. It's, you know, you're talking about classroom management and routines and just, you know, building up that foundation and in a lot of ways, working with the veteran teachers is actually, it's [00:20:00] really sometimes for me, it's actually, it's a lot more fun and it's exciting because they have those foundations in place.

What I can do now is go to them and say, you know, this is what you're doing. What would you like to do next? If you could wave a magic wand and elevate your lesson somehow, what would that look like? And to be able to help guide them through the steps of finding that solution. That's been the most rewarding for me.

You know, and I think you, you brought up something that I absolutely believe, and that is the difference between working with a novice teacher and working with a veteran teacher. Because I hear people say, and I don't know if you had this in the training that you had prior to me meeting you, that let's ask the teachers where they want to go, what do you want to do?

Well, a new teacher has, in my opinion, it's so overwhelming, it's such a difficult job, and say, what do you want to do? versus a veteran teacher, what do you want to do? It's a whole different thing because they have that [00:21:00] context, they have that knowledge, they have that. So, so I just don't think there's one size fits all that we say, oh let's, the teachers are professional, let's ask them what they want to do.

They are professional, they're there every day, and there's still stuff you don't know.

Absolutely.

If you were going to, if you were going to have a chance to talk to some new coaches, some perspective. People going into instructional coaching. What advice would you have for them? Advice, not only, what you might give, but where would you direct them with regards to reading and studying or anything to help them along the way?

So for brand new instructional coaches that's I think my big, probably key advice is, You know, there's, you have to know, just like in teaching, you have to know why you're getting into instructional coaching, you know, what's making you want to shift gears so to speak. For me, classroom teaching, you know, that was my passion.

[00:22:00] And after attending so many conferences and networking with different people, learning a lot of new things and being able to use that and see that in the classroom and how effective they are, I found that my passion was shifting from. in classroom and just staying within my classroom to wanting to be able to have the opportunity to spread the wealth of knowledge to other teachers.

And so my passion started to want to grow and expand outside the box of the classroom. I wanted to get, reach it bigger, reach bigger, reach farther. So I think it's really important to really understand why you want to get into instructional coaching because that's eventually that will be your anchor.

But in aside from that. You have to definitely check out Gene, Mr. Tavanetti, he's got two books right now, you gotta check those out but also just network, networking with people that are instructional coaches or ed tech toses or intervention specialists, you know, [00:23:00] just getting a feel for, you know, different areas too, but There's different groups online that you can, you know, get in contact with and just being able to surround yourself with people that are both new and have been in it for a while, I think has also really helped me navigate through different things.

And, you know, there, there will be that. That feeling of oh, what's, what is that? What is that? And there's a word for it. It's the feeling imposter syndrome and That's something at least for me that was something that's been really difficult to get over But you have to you know, trust yourself that you have the skills You're good at what you do You have the experience and people who hired you obviously saw something and you have to believe in yourself You But that would be my main pieces of advice.

No, I think those are very good pieces of advice. And I think one, I wanted to emphasize, reemphasize one of the points that you made about veteran [00:24:00] teachers and the talent that's on a staff. And it's so interesting and you fall into this category that I'm going to describe right now, Paul.

that there are teachers and I don't want to say on every site, but I would say on nearly every site that they leave campus and they might go to a conference and present and they're a star. They're almost a celebrity. And just like Paul's a

So,

Paul's a Google, but you know, you got folks and maybe you're not a celebrity, but there's this cohort of folks that, that you're with, where you feel good about being with.

And I think there are so many, so much talent that we have on our campuses that That we just don't, that we just don't take advantage of. And it's good to, it's good to hear that you describe you're taking advantages of your cohort of instructional coaches, even though they're not on your [00:25:00] site.

Oh, let's see. Is there any, anything else that you might want to share with with folks about coaching? Or did I ask you what's the most unexpected thing that you, that happened to you when you became a coach?

The most unexpected thing I don't think it was necessarily one thing in particular. I think for me, it was, I think for me, I felt like It was a, it was an expectation that was unexpected of me, I think, maybe from certain people, which was I think there's like this, perhaps this expectation that your academic coach is like a problem solver and problems will disappear after working with the coach or you send the coach to problems.

And I think, you know, that's, I think that's a perspective or a view that, I kind of went in, I was like, Oh, I don't know if it's, you know, I don't think that's the case. And so, you know, I had to work around that.

Well, you [00:26:00] mentioned that your vice principal had been an experienced instructional coach, and I talk to folks all the time, and many disagree with me. I talk about instructional coaching being something very new. And of course, I think maybe that's a function of how old I am. I think instructional, when I was in, when I became an instructional coach, there, we didn't even know that was a thing.

It was just somebody that, that went in and supported people. Then we started talking about instructional coaching, and then, We had principals, administrators, who needed to supervise, support guide instructional coaches, but they didn't know what was possible. And then instructional coaches didn't stick around long enough to get good at it.

And then they began and so I think there's this vacuum that needs to be filled. And maybe in another generation when when there are more [00:27:00] coaches, when there are more administrators who had been successful instructional coaches, people like you who actually, this is what I want to do.

I want to go out and help versus I just want to get out of the classroom and move up the, my career ladder

right.

So, I don't know if there was a question in there, but I still think that it's a new. It's a new thing that we have, this instructional coach, and hopefully that we can support a lot of teachers.

One thing that you are not an instructional coach, you are an academic coach.

So I was going to mention that. And, for us in our district, we have academic coaches. And after actually going to, different conferences, And I've seen them before, different conferences, or even that, you know, that cognitive coaching series that I went to, they're the coaches there, they were either called TOSAs, Which is really, I guess, the formal version of what I am.

It's just, you [00:28:00] know, teacher on special assignment. But a lot of the titles were Instructional Coach. I hardly ever saw, and actually, I really don't think I, even to this day, I really do not see Academic Coach. So, actually, when applying for the position, that's actually one of the reasons why I was thinking, like, what am I going to do all day?

Because, you know, it had something to do with academics. But it turns out a lot of the A lot of the responsibilities have to overlap very much so with an instructional coach and even for what I do, actually now it's it's a combination of instructional coach with Ed Tech Tosa and some other hats.

That's because I think that's because of the bucket of talents that you bring, you know, somebody else.

me blush, Gene.

Yeah. Well, I think it's true. I think it's interesting about the term coach. I was talking to somebody who had been an instructional coach at a county office who [00:29:00] said, we stopped saying coach.

We stopped saying coach as if, you is if you stop saying the word, everything's going to be fine. You're going to start fooling people now. Oh, I'm not an instructional coach. I'm an academic coach. All right. As if it makes a difference. Have you talked to various people as a conferences that have various titles and you find out, Hey, we're doing the same thing.

We're doing the same thing.

Yeah. Does that matter what you're called or,

I guess at the end of everything, at the end of the day, No, probably not. I think it, I think if anything, it helps those that are not already familiar with who you are and what you do, or maybe you're new to the district, new to the site, you know, maybe it's a little hint of like, oh, this person does these things.

okay. So I know that this is gonna be a very hypothetical question because I know you and your family and you are Gonzalez spoke. You are in the, you are in the district. But let's say you decided that [00:30:00] you were going to, you were going to go to another district and. Become an instructional coach, or you're going to another site within the district.

What things would you think, what things would you think about that you might encounter that you didn't because everybody knew you? You

Yeah, I know. So that's an interesting thought. I think I would most, two, two things just popped into my mind. One is that I would have to earn trust first before I could do anything else. And the advantage of being the coach at my site, you know, I've already known all the teachers here for 10 years.

And so, I know them and had the privilege of going into their classrooms before I was a coach. And they knew me and, you know, my personality, et cetera. And I think going to Another district, a bigger district, or, you know, what have you, even [00:31:00] just the Well, I wouldn't say another school site within the district just because, you know, we're such a small district, everyone kind of knows everybody.

But I think if I were to be at another district, yeah, that would be probably the biggest thing for me would just be having to build that trust. needing to build that trust with other people before having that, that feeling of being invited in, or, hey, it's okay to come in anytime. And I think the second thing for me is just me, myself into the classroom and just having that constant reminder to, you know, you know, good teaching is good teaching.

And I know first impressions make, are the most important thing, but, you know, relationships matters. I guess ultimately it comes down to just being seen as someone who's supportive. A good brainstorm partner, sounding board, and some of the, that you're there to be there and collaborate with,

know, one of the things that I was impressed with you as we went through classrooms and [00:32:00] visited, you never needed emotionally You know, you may talk about an imposter syndrome, but it never looked to me like you needed to let the teachers know how smart you were, and it wasn't, you didn't feel the need, like you go into a visit a classroom for 10 minutes and say, Oh, you know what you could have done there, you know what, you know, and I think that goes a long way to doing what you just said is developing that trust is like, I'm not here to evaluate, which We do evaluate, but not evaluate in the sense of, you know, a for a formal evaluation.

But I think that's critical. And I just wanted to piggyback a little bit on that, you know, about building, building that trust. It's not like, you know, you don't want people every time they see Paul, you know, to hide and turn away because, Oh, he's good. He's going to give me another tip. He's going to give me another tip.

He's so smart. And so, It's a long term thing, you know, you take your time and it will develop. I know that, [00:33:00] that teacher that we were talking about, I think we went in three or four times to that classroom just to observe this veteran teacher. And then when he came in we just listened.

We just, you know, we were supposed to plan a lesson and we listened to him talk for you know, 45 minutes, but that's what he needed to do. You know, there are a lot of things he was upset about. And then once we heard him, he felt heard and and I think we earned some trust.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Paul, I gotta tell you, it's good. It's good seeing you again. And I really appreciate you doing this, and I think uh, it's going to be good for some of the new coaches and experienced coaches to hear what your experiences were.

No, thank you, Gene. I really appreciate the opportunity to come onto your show here, your podcast. And um, I think throughout this process, the biggest anchor for me that, you know, to this day really helps me in the coaching world is. It's not the teaching is good teaching or anything else it's actually it's that [00:34:00] mindset of going in and realizing. I'm not here to fix anybody. There's nothing to be fixed It's I'm seeing you where you are we come together to make goals of where you'd like to go and I'm here to work with you to get to that place and Once I realized that I think actually a lot of pressure and weight You was lifted because that was such an overbearing thought that was over me.

But yeah,

no, that that's terrific. And once you feel like that will be the teachers will see that as well. They'll realize he's not here to fix me. He's not superior. We're in this together.

right.

Paul Dietrich, again, thank you so much and the best to you. Say hello to anybody who would care and we'll, we'll talk to you soon.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you, Jane. I appreciate it.

If you are enjoying these podcasts, please give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, and you can [00:35:00] find me on Twitter, x at G Tabernetti, and on my website, tesscg. com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you'll get information about how to order my books, teach fast, focused, adaptable, structured teaching, and maximizing the impact of coaching cycles.

Thank you for listening. We'll talk to you soon