Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works

Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better
Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a

podcast for teachers, instructional
coaches, administrators, and anyone else

who supports teachers in the classroom.

This show is a proud member of
the BE Podcast Network shows that

help you go beyond education.

Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com.

I Am Gene Tavernetti the
host for this podcast.

And my goal for this episode, like
all episodes, is that you laugh at

least once and that you leave with an
actionable idea for better teaching.

A quick reminder, no
cliches, no buzzwords.

Only stuff that works

Very excited about my guest today.

Today we'll be talking
to Francie Weinberg.

She was born and raised in South Florida.

She has a Bachelor of Science
in Public Relations from the

University of Florida and a Master
of Science in School Counseling

from Nova Southeastern University.

Francie has worked as a high school
counselor in public and private

schools for nearly a decade.

She now works as a high school
counselor at an independent K 12 school.

With a passion for helping teens
navigate their most formative years,

Francie is committed to building a
school wide culture of social emotional

wellness through loving accountability.

She has also volunteered for the
Crisis Text Line and as a court

appointed guardian at LEADM for
children in the foster care system.

I really enjoyed this conversation
with Francie as we talked about many

of the issues that students face today,
children face today in our society,

and also the challenges that teachers
have in working with the students.

So it was my pleasure to
introduce you to Francie Weinberg.

Francie, good morning.

It's great to have you here.

I say good morning, but you're in Florida.

Francie Weinberg: Yes.

Great to be here, Gene.

Thank you so much for having me.

Gene Tavernetti: Oh gosh, my, my pleasure.

And as I said in the introduction, that
one of the things, one of the reasons

that I was interested in talking to
you is, you know, everything that's

in the news today about the issues
facing teens, teen anxiety, issues with

social media, and just everything that.

So, as I said in your introduction,
you've been a counselor for a

school counselor for 10 years.

How has things changed in the,
in those 10 years that you see?

Francie Weinberg: Even in the
past five years, we're in a wildly

different world now than we were.

I think it was spring semester, two,
two school years ago that AI really

took off and It just permeated school.

And so even, I mean, even compared
to two years ago, I think it's a

different ballgame than it was.

But you know, I was looking up some
statistics on Ivy League acceptances,

admission acceptances, and in the
past 10 years, so from 2014 to 2024,

acceptance rates have gone down.

A staggering amount.

So Penn, for example, in
2014, was admitting 14.

2 percent of its
applicants, and in 2024, 5.

4%. And really, all the Ivy Leagues
have followed suit, and so I think

the world I mean, America at least has
become significantly more competitive

in terms of college admissions.

We really are cultivating what we want
to see from students and so I think they

are sort of flocking to this online world
as just a little bit of a safe haven,

a little bit of a place where they're
not being watched and having to perform

perfectly, which as we know is Ironic.

Yeah,

Gene Tavernetti: well, one of the, one
of the reasons that I wanted to talk

to you is because, you know, when I met
you, you were talking about your job

and you were talking about the issues
that you would deal with these kids.

And again, you're a counselor,
you're a school counselor.

And so, we talked about two buckets of
issues that the kids are dealing with.

That, Actually, there is some convergence.

One of them is what you talked about
right now is the pressure of getting

into colleges because you're, what
you're working in right now is an

independent school where kids are
expected to move on, if I recall.

Okay, and so that's what many people
think about a traditional school

counselor, is that they're going to help
their kids get into college but you're

doing much more than that, aren't you?

Francie Weinberg: Absolutely.

Yes.

Yeah.

I mean, that's it's hard to talk about
the job without talking about college

at all, because ultimately that's
sort of, I think the finish line a

lot of people are looking toward, but
yeah, in terms of what it takes up

day to day, it really is a very small
percentage of how I spend my days.

Gene Tavernetti: Well, can you talk
about, I know I was a counselor for a time

and there's no such thing as a typical
day but can you walk us through some

of the things that you're dealing with?

Because, again, one of the things that
was interesting when I was talking to

you you're actually dealing with kids
in a counseling type of relationship.

Not as just, you know, get to
class, young lady, type of thing.

Francie Weinberg: right.

So, you know, it's the role of a school
counselor, I think, has really changed.

It's sort of had this rebranding
from being the get to class

and your grades are terrible.

You're never going to make it
to like, how can we get there?

What is the finish line and
how can we get you there?

And I spent, I mean, I spent a surprising
amount of my day really working with

kids on dealing with anxiousness
and nervousness around test taking

around just the amount that they
have on their plate, time management,

executive functioning test taking
strategies, ways to, to build Retention

and ways to study more effectively.

And so that really is a big
portion of what I'm doing.

I think that there is a big
gap in kids being taught how to

study it and learn effectively.

And then even at the best
schools there's that gap.

It's just, we're not teaching kids.

They're not learning how to learn.

I think in a lot of places, and then of
course, there's the more intense counselor

stuff that, you know, I know we've both.

Dealt with of really making
sure kids are in an emotionally

safe place to be able to learn.

And then I do a lot of conversations
with parents, a lot of conversations

with teachers to help them navigate
conversations with parents.

And then the sort of meetings where
everybody who has significant touch

points with kids outside of the
classroom where we're coming together

to share information because it.

You know, it's not all, it's not all
coming to me as the school counselor.

I'm never going to be every student's.

first person that they go to.

And so it's more important that they
have that safe adult and that they're

able to maintain those relationships.

And then that information
is sort of centralized.

So a lot of that as well.

Gene Tavernetti: You know, so you're
talking about, you know, how to learn,

how to remember, you know, you're
talking about a lot of things that,

You know, we talk about it at research
and those, you know, just those types

of situations that, again, you think
of more as classroom type of things.

Do you do any work other than
individual consultations with teachers?

Like, do you do workshops on different
things for kids and for the teachers?

Francie Weinberg: Yeah.

So I do both work for teachers.

in terms of how to be there, how they
can be the most effective as teachers.

And so a lot of times I'll do,
but it's not a ton of that.

Like there's so much.

I think there's so much competition for
time, for teachers time, for students

time, that, you know, there's one or
two school counselors in a school.

I think if the role of the school
counselor was more important, they

really and the idea of it really
was to sort of build out support for

teachers, both supporting teachers,
as themselves and in doing their work.

There probably would be a different role
or more school counselors or some sort

of adjustment, but it's not the case.

So I'm not sure that tends to be the case.

Sort of the priority of any school
that I've been at, or really even

any model that I'm familiar with.

Gene Tavernetti: New teachers one of
the things that is interesting to me

when there's Whenever there's an issue
in our society, gosh, this is going to,

you know, there's no cliches allowed on
this, but this is going to sound cliche.

Everything gets, you know, shoved
down to the teacher to take care of,

you know, like for instance You know,
have to do social emotional learning.

You know, there's curriculum for teachers.

Do you think the teachers have
enough training or are equipped to

handle a lot of what we're asking
them to do with the kids these days?

Francie Weinberg: I think I
started shaking my head like

midway through your question.

Just no, absolutely not.

And it's not it's nobody's fault.

Again, it's this competition for time.

So I mean, think about what
these teachers are up against.

They have sometimes 30
kids in a classroom.

They have 45 minutes with the kid.

They have an entire semester.

standardized curriculum to get through
that's being interrupted for greed

meetings and for somebody to come talk
about not drinking and driving and

everything that can be jammed into school.

We're jamming into school and still
expecting tremendous pass rates from

teachers and then saying also teach
them to be socially Well, right.

How is that fair?

I mean, that's not their job.

That's what I went to school for.

It's not what they went to school for.

So I just think what we put on teachers
to get done in a day in a school year is

I mean, it's really, it exceeds, I think,
expectations that happen in most jobs.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so, You have, um,
defended the teachers in this because

the other place that this falls, because
it falls on the schools is because,

well, the parents should be doing this.

The parents, do the, do you
think parents have the skills?

I mean, here you have a
master's degree in what you do.

Do parents have the skills to
support their kids in what they need?

What's your thoughts on that?

Or is that why you have a job?

Francie Weinberg: My, my gut reaction
was to say, I think parents think

they have the skills to do that.

I think a lot of parents are in
this tricky spot where, of course,

they know their children best.

and it doesn't necessarily mean they
know what's best for their children.

And that can be a tough
thing to grapple with.

And so while no, I don't think many
parents have the skills to teach

their kids really to be have like a
strong psychological immune system.

And part of that is my role as the
school counselor is to give parents The

skills to both for themselves to model
for their kids and to teach their kids.

But I often think that they don't
have the skills at many of them

still tend to think it's my kid.

And so therefore I know best
and I understand that mindset.

And I also know that there are
people in education who've been

doing this for 10, 20, 30 years
who have degrees in it, who really.

This is what we know and this is what
we do and you know, there's a, there's

part of me that wants to say when
you enroll your child in this school,

you are trusting this organization's
educational expertise and so just

have a little bit of faith in us.

Gene Tavernetti: Well, you talked about
knowing best, you know, parents knowing

their kids, parents knowing their kids
best, but we're in a time now where nobody

knows, seems to know what's best, and
I think, you know, talking about social

media, the impact of social media and
I can't help but go back You know, do

the timeline of when you were talking
about when things began to get worse.

And it seemed your two and a half
years would put us right after COVID.

And smack dab, you know,
between COVID and social media.

How's social media impacting?

Your work, you know, how do
you see it impacting your work?

Which really means impacting the
kids because we hear about it all

the time in the media Is it being
overblown in the media or no?

Francie Weinberg: I think that's a really,
obviously a really complicated question.

If it wasn't, we would have one
answer and we would know what to do.

I think that there are ways that
social media has sort of become

this bogeyman where we're making
it, out to be terrible in every way.

And while I think that there are a lot
of ways that social media is terrible

I also know, I understand why kids have
turned to it in the way that they have.

You know, I think teenagers have
always sort of done the revolutionary

thing that adults are afraid of, and
that's always going to be part of it.

And.

And then there's the layer of parents
modeling healthy social media use,

which I don't think is happening either.

And so it's really hard to talk about
teens on social media without talking

about what they're seeing at home.

I found an abuse survey in 2020.

68 percent of parents report sometimes or
often feeling distracted by their phones.

when they're spending
time with their children.

And so, it makes me wonder why we
expect teenagers to act differently.

In terms of the way that I see it in
schools, I don't think it's that kids

are unable to have conversations.

I'm not seeing kids incapable
of looking adults in the eyes

and forming complete sentences.

And that's really not what I'm seeing.

But what I am seeing is this comfort
that comes from hiding behind a

screen, sort of taking down any
Real desire or need to be polite.

I think it's damaged the ways in which
we communicate and the value we place

on being thoughtful about our words.

Gene Tavernetti: So when you're working
with students, do you have, are there

students who you're working with that
you will work on those particular skills?

Francie Weinberg: We have to because
there's this idea, I think, when you're in

an online community, and it's very easy to
enter and exit, right, there is, Jonathan

Haidt calls it a low bar for entry
community, where you can enter easily, you

can block anybody easily, you can leave at
any time, and so there is no real skin in

the game in terms of you know, rectifying
mistakes or apologizing for saying

something in a way that might be hurtful
because They're low barrier communities

and in schools, in a classroom, the
relationship you have with your teacher,

the relationships you have with your
administrators, those are high bar for

entry relationships and so you have to be
thoughtful about those things and I think

kids at this point because their lives
are so intertwined with the internet, they

don't really note that difference as kids.

Kids and teenagers.

And so we, I mean, we have to work on it.

We the, I can't tell you the number
of times I've had to say like,

you can't call your teacher bro.

It doesn't matter how frustrated you are.

And it doesn't matter that when
you're frustrated and you're

texting, you say, Bro, come on.

You can't then turn around
and say it to your teacher.

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah, and you, I hope
you also tell them, don't call them dude.

Francie Weinberg: You know, it's
way more bro than dude these days.

Gene Tavernetti: It is, you
know, I of course, okay.

Here's boom alert coming.

I just can't, that is one of
my, I, there's a place I shop.

Boy, this really is a bird walk.

There's a place I shop and
I walk in and it's not busy.

It's a supplement store and there's
a young person behind the counter

and as soon as I walk in, he
says, Hey bro can I help you, bro?

You know.

And in the course, I know
exactly what I'm going to get.

I get the same thing every time.

I'm in two minutes and You know, I'll
get five bros, you know, in, in two

minutes, but you know what I don't get?

Thank you.

Thank

Francie Weinberg: think

Gene Tavernetti: And so, so
that's the one that really has

gotten me, you know, so, thank

Francie Weinberg: perfectly
illustrated my point.

Thank you.

Gene Tavernetti: thank you.

Thank you for your work
in that in that space.

Actually, I wasn't listening to your,

Francie Weinberg: a hero.

Gene Tavernetti: yeah, well,
and you know, and your survey

with the Pew survey was 68%.

I have a feeling that there's at least 25
to 30 percent of parents lying about that.

Or don't even realize that it's
happening because that's how much

things have, has permeated our.

our daily lives.

We don't even, we don't
even think about it.

Francie Weinberg: Do you know what,
you can track your pickups on your

phone, so the number of times a day
you're, if on an iPhone you can see the

number of times you pick up your phone.

I think we pick up our phone.

You do that thing where you pick
up your phone to look at the time

and you put your phone down and
then you're like, what time is it?

Do you ever do that?

Gene Tavernetti: It's, it's scary.

I look, pick it up to look for something,
you know, but yeah it's all the time.

And so, So I really that's
why I wanted to talk to you.

I mean, like, God, is it
as bad as we think it is?

And is it just, um, I think the kids,
like you say, they have conflated

how you communicate online with
how you communicate in person.

I know had Dr. Rodriguez on recently
talking about his experience with, Like

late teenagers as they were doing job
interviews that people would interview

in their pajamas, you know, or walking
down the aisle at Costco, you know,

because they just don't know how to
communicate beyond this social media.

Francie Weinberg: I thought that
was incredible where he was talking

about how he has them start the
interview with their camera off.

And I mean, it's, it is shocking
to me that's necessary, but it is.

And I can't help but feel like that
was a byproduct of COVID where they

really did sit in their pajamas.

I mean, I, we did teacher orientation
on zoom and there were teachers in bed.

So, I while I feel that no amount
of global pandemic would ever end

up with me doing a Zoom from my bed
for work, I know that my judgment

is not everyone's and so now things
have to be taught that we didn't

really ever expect to have to teach.

But it's a different world.

Zoom interviews didn't exist.

Not that long ago.

Gene Tavernetti: So, let me
get back to teachers again.

So we had a survey with regards to parents
and their what they reported with respect

to being interrupted by their phones.

How do you think teachers, do teachers,
you know, and I don't know where you

would see this except maybe in a staff
meeting, how, or do you see the same

distraction level with the teachers?

Francie Weinberg: I really do.

I really do.

And that's what makes it,
that's what makes it so tricky.

So, you know, this year, I think
a lot of schools moved toward a

phone ban and a lot of schools were
sort of just making like blanket

policies on what they wanted to do.

And one of the things that the
school that I'm in decided to do

is no phones in academic spaces.

So in any of the academic hallway is in.

any of in the auditorium or the library.

And when we're in the auditorium,
I see, I mean, I see kids and

adults alike on their phone.

And everybody has stuff to
do and everybody's busy and

everybody has responsibilities.

And, you know, especially for
teachers, again, I can't help but

defend them when they get a free
moment in the day, which is so rare.

I'm, I, of course they want
to take a look at their phone.

Everyone does.

And so again, if everyone does,
that's where I feel that how much

of our concern we've directed toward
teenagers might be a bit misplaced.

I think We could spread the wealth of
that concern to non teenagers as well.

I mean, I've parents, I've seen parents in
parent teacher conferences pick up their

phones and start texting and take phone
calls and everything you can imagine.

And it's the same, it's
really the same behavior.

Gene Tavernetti: No I agree.

It is so pervasive and that's why,
you know, I really wanted to talk to

somebody who's with kids all the time
to see if it is different because it's

really hard to try to put down rules.

that you yourself don't follow
because that's, I mean, you think

kids don't pay attention to that?

Francie Weinberg: Kids, kids are always
All behavior is learned, I think.

If kids are learning from what they're
seeing all the time, they're learning

from their teachers, they're learning
from their parents, they're learning

from what they see on social media,
and that is such a big chunk of it.

If they're learning so much from
what they see on social media, isn't

it then more important for us to
model behavior that's different.

We know that's the
information they're getting.

They're getting this sort of constant
feedback loop on social media of, this

is good, this is fun, this is positive.

If we then want them to do less of that,
then that's the behavior we need to be

modeling when they're not on their phones.

And it's, I think we, we tend to fall
into this trap of, saying get off

your phones and then just quickly
checking ours and putting it down.

Gene Tavernetti: So, so you're
working in a K, you're working in

a school right now that it's a, an
independent school, but you also, as

we said in your introduction that you
volunteer with a crisis text line.

So does that, is that what it
sounds like is that you are

actually texting people in crisis?

Francie Weinberg: So people in crisis
text in and then those of us on the

receiving end are on, we're on a computer
and so I'm doing it, I'm not texting

but it's, I mean, it's, The regular
crisis text line that is on, when I,

in the last county I was working in,
all of the students had the suicide

hotline and the crisis text line phone
numbers on the back of their student IDs.

So, it's that crisis text line,
and I mean, I think we get,

we have so many people texting
and saying, like, are you real?

Is this a robot?

Is this AI?

And that's how, like, 40 percent
of the conversations start.

Gene Tavernetti: okay, but just to
clarify, you get it, somebody texts

in, but you also respond digitally.

The response is digital.

Francie Weinberg: correct.

So there's no, nobody's talking.

Gene Tavernetti: Wow.

I mean, you know, that's interesting.

I mean, you know, that's kind
of what we're trying to fix, you

know, you know, the anonymity,
you still have anonymity, but.

But at like double
blind, it's double blind.

Here you are on the text.

Francie Weinberg: It is, and
it's tricky in terms of if

there, is somebody who's at risk.

We, it's, we're really sort of
depending on them to give us that

information because it is anonymous.

Any information that they
share with us is voluntary.

So sometimes we'll say, are you
comfortable sharing your name?

And they'll say, no, we
don't, I don't want to.

And that's fine.

Gene Tavernetti: Wow, that must
take a whole lot of skill because,

I mean, I hate sending emails
because the tone can be mistaken.

You know, Miss Red and, you
know, why did, here, let me

read this email that I just got.

And then, you know, like you're,
you make up how awful this

person was on the other line.

How do you mitigate that with text?

Or you just become skilled
at it, knowing, or?

Francie Weinberg: I think you become,
so there's a training program you

go through a training where you're
having conversations with robots and

by conversations I mean you're typing
with them and they're responding and

so there's a training and then you do
get skilled as it, as you, You do get

skilled as you continue, but also, to
be clear, it doesn't, it's not a skill

that feels to me like it translates
into emails, because I have the same

experience that you're describing when
I'm answering emails still, and I don't,

it's just a different headspace, I think.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay, because
you know that they're entering

in the conversation in crisis in
looking for some, it's just yeah.

Francie Weinberg: it's a different,
My, my role is different.

My role is to get them from crisis to
a calmer place where they're able to

safely go about the rest of their day
or night or whatever it is, versus, you

know, you work for days and days on a
project and then someone sends you back

an email that says, Thanks with a period.

You're like, I, this can't be right.

So it's just not the same.

Gene Tavernetti: So, so now taking
those crisis issues, and then

comparing, contrasting to issues that
you deal with anxiety and things in

schools, are there, is there overlap?

Are there, are you seeing
some of the same issues?

Are there issues that you may have
in students that don't manifest when

you're talking to them as crises?

But you kind of.

Can't see that they are.

You know what I'm asking?

Is it?

Francie Weinberg: Yes, I had so I
made a QR code for students to scan

when they want to meet with me.

And just for my own information,
I asked them to rank the

urgency low, medium or high.

The urgency is shockingly high.

I mean, it's the same rank if it's my,
I'm worried about a friend who's in

crisis or my math class is not going well.

Both of those are extremely
urgent in the eyes of a teenager.

Also on a crisis, on the crisis text
line, we're really the job there.

And, you know, The job is to provide
support for whoever needs it, but

it was born out of a need to respond
to people in crisis who maybe either

aren't comfortable picking up a phone,
aren't in a place where they can

have an out loud phone conversation,
and they really need that support.

And what I see there, like what I see in
schools, is that I think people have a

hard time understanding really what it
means to be in crisis, and that's okay.

That means that their barometer
for crisis is low, and that

Lucky them, that's a good thing.

But the issues sort of range across
the board in both places from things

that really are a crisis to things
like my parents are really mad at me

and it feels like a crisis because
I am a teenager and I don't like it.

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah.

And my parents won't get off the
phone to talk to me or they won't

Francie Weinberg: am not.

Gene Tavernetti: they
won't respond to my text.

Yeah.

You know, one of the things that
was talking, I wanna talk a little

bit about trauma based ed education.

And one of the things that was
interesting to me when I was doing my.

my master's in counseling was, you
know, how things were diagnosed how

maladaptive behaviors were diagnosed.

You know, you got your manual, I don't
know if people know, there's a a DSM,

and I don't know what the latest is, but
it's a Diagnostic Statistical Manual.

Is it 13?

Okay, wow.

And so a therapist, a counselor will
look at this manual, and it has a list

of manifestations of this behavior.

And if you get four out of six, then
you have it, you know, and so it's a,

seems like a funny way to diagnose.

But having said that the point that
I was going to get to, and I will,

is that at the time there was a I
don't even remember what was going

on at the time, but, They said 90
percent of the population has this.

you know, maladaptive behavior.

Well, it seems to me if you're using a
statistical manual to diagnose things and

90 percent of the population has it, it
means that it's not, by definition, it's

normal, you know, and how do we do that?

And so that's sometimes how I'm
wishy washy on the whole trauma.

trauma based stuff.

You know, it's you know,
what is it, the ACES?

That is the diag it's kind of
the diagnostic statistical manual

for, you know, how bad trauma is.

How is, are we looking
at that in a funny way?

Or what's your thoughts about that?

Francie,

Francie Weinberg: It's
interesting that you ask that.

I started my master's program where I
live in Florida, which is the same county

that Marjory Stoneman Douglas is in.

So I started my master's in August
of 2018, and that's the That shooting

happened in February of 2018, so
six months earlier, and a lot of the

professors that I had at the time were,
they were part time professors and full

time directors of school counseling,
directors of middle school counseling,

directors of high school counseling, and
they were the first people to go back

into the school when the school reopened
to meet with students, to start working

on that trauma informed counseling.

And so my degree and learning in the
classes that I took sort of came,

you know, With this as the backdrop,
it was really hard to separate

what we were talking about from
this really significant trauma that

had just taken place in our area.

And so I, my education may be unique
in the way that I think the way I

was taught about trauma and the way
we talked about it was, I mean, that

it's not, I don't feel like that's.

It's something that we take
lightly here with our students.

And so, you know, I think like,
like anything else, and like we were

talking about with social media, there,
there's these things that gain steam

and start rolling forward of where
we want to, The words we want to use,

the pedagogy we want to align behind,
and because it sounds good, and this

trauma informed therapy in school
counseling, I think, has the opportunity

to be a lot of hot air, but I'm lucky
in that where I am, it really isn't.

It's really sort of fundamental to,
you know, to the training that we get,

and in a very realistic way, in a way
that's like this is what you need to

look for, this is what you do when you
see it, and this is how we move forward.

Gene Tavernetti: that's a distinction.

Okay, what you just described,
that's a pure distinction.

And everything you talked about
your training in counseling, dealing

with trauma informed counseling.

How much does the classroom Again,
this gets back to what we're

asking classroom teachers to do.

I know I was at a
training for new teachers.

These are brand new teachers, and they had
to learn about trauma informed teaching.

And I'm thinking, holy cow,
they don't know about anything.

And now you're shaking your head.

So tell me what you're thinking about
this, what we're asking teachers to do

Francie Weinberg: I mean, I, again, I
think it's, the role of a teacher I think

we really need, we're at this strange
time where parents who do believe that

there are experts in the field, which
is great, are maybe too comfortable

outsourcing parenting sometimes.

And so they have a sort of a team of
people working with their kids, the

kid has therapists and tutors and
executive functioning skills coaches

and a college counselor and all of these
people whose job it is to support them.

And and the idea that it's, that's
the role of the school, the job of the

teacher, the role of the teacher, of
the classroom, that is where kids go to

learn the subject that they are learning.

And if we want to make it the
responsibility of the school to

teach kids how to be good people,
we need a lot more hours in the day

and frankly a lot higher salaries.

I mean, it's just, it's, parents
still need to be parents.

And so teachers can be teachers.

Gene Tavernetti: You know
what, Francie, that might be

the perfect place to end this.

It is, you know, Francie,
it is always a pleasure.

And I'm sure we'll talk again.

Hopefully we'll see each other soon.

And do you have

Francie Weinberg: so much,

Gene Tavernetti: You have
any questions for me?

Francie Weinberg: I do.

I was wondering about your time as a
school counselor and now as a coach, sort

of what experience are you able to draw
upon to use in your coaching that you

maybe used or honed as a school counselor?

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I, as I
read, as you know, you know, me

just enough to know that I'm a
contrarian, you know, type of person.

And I read a lot of books.

I have read a lot of books about
counseling not counseling, I'm sorry

coaching, instructional coaching, and a
lot of the, a lot of the pages in those

books are devoted to communication.

And I think I just, well,
two things about that.

One, some things that they ask
instructional coaches to do as a

counselor, I wouldn't have touched, you
know, just like you're talking about that.

It's just way too demanding.

So even as a trained
counselor, I don't go there.

I don't want to get into
those things with Francie.

I like you, you know, go see a therapist,
you know, you know, go see a therapist.

That's not my job.

So, so it has helped me in communication.

It has told me that I need to listen
occasionally, and you know how tough

that is for me, that I need to listen.

But I think that's been the
biggest the biggest impact is

those communication skills.

And having some empathy for people.

I mean, like you said there, you know,
teachers are doing a lot of work.

I mean, they're asked
to do a lot of things.

We can't just go in there and
pretend to know everything.

And I know some school, when I had
school counselors, that's how they were.

They knew everything and they wanted to
let me know that they knew everything.

And so that's been the, that's been
the biggest the biggest thing for me.

It's a big part of what's necessary
that I didn't have to relearn.

And

Francie Weinberg: number one tip
as a coach for a school counselor?

Just give me one, one for the book.

Gene Tavernetti: you talk
about working with adults

Francie Weinberg: Working as a coach, what
would you tell me as a school counselor?

Gene Tavernetti: as a school counselor.

Don't give any advice.

until you know the situation.

And I think adults should give advice.

I'm no Rogerian there.

I mean, you know, Hey, you
know, I've been through this.

I understand it, but you need to
understand the issue and you need

to understand like, like I want to
give you a pat on the back here.

The before I talk to somebody, before
they're a podcast guest, I send them a

little you know, a little prep sheet,
and one of the things I always ask

is, where are you on social media?

You know, where can people
find you on social media?

And you said, no social
media, walk the walk.

And I think that is great
advice for counselors.

Don't be, I mean, I knew high
school counselors who were

trying to tell kids not to drink.

You know, you, you can't, you, you
truly do have to walk the walk and

you could still have a fun life.

Francie Weinberg: Thank you so much, Gene.

Gene Tavernetti: Hey,
Francie, it's been a pleasure.

Talk to you soon.

We'll see you soon.

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