Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works

Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom.

This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education.

Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com.

I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast.

And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching.

A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords.

Only stuff that works.

I was really looking forward to this conversation today with someone who is in charge of, uh, helping to prepare new teachers for the rigors of the classroom.

Uh, my guest today is Cameron Castaneda, and she's been in education for over 20 years as a classroom, ELA teacher.

In middle school teaching seventh, and eighth grade honors and she was the A LA department chair.

She was an ELA an ELD coach, and now she's the induction coordinator for her district.

She was a 2004 University of California Irvine writing project fellow.

The highlight of her career was when she was one of 11 teachers honored for the California League of Middle School, educator of the Year in 2015 and Employee of the Year in her school district, which is Placencia, Yorba Linda Unified School District.

She currently runs the induction program for her district and oversee six to 12 curriculum and instruction.

She is passionate about supporting new teachers and methods to engage students.

I think you're gonna like this one.

Hi Cam, it's great to have you here today.

I'm looking forward to a conversation about all the work you do.

Cameron Castenda: Thanks for having me.

This is so fun.

Gene Tavernetti: Well, as I said in the introduction you are working as And induction program manager and helping and this is for new teachers.

Can you just describe because we have listeners all over the country, all over the world, kind of describe what it takes to become licensed to get a credential in California and where your program fits in.

Cameron Castenda: Sure, no problem.

Home.

So after a candidate would finish their undergraduate program in their university, meaning they did their undergrad and then one to two years of credentialing where they would undergo their student teaching they can then be hired in a school.

And that's where I come in and they enroll in a two year program called Induction.

And it's, it's through the state of California.

So it's a requirement not just a district thing.

And so in those two years, they are given just in time support and assigned a mentor to help them throughout the process.

And it's just a way to ease them into the career.

After the two years, then we recommend them for their clear credential.

And they're all done.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Just to clarify, so I'm a teacher or I'm a, I wanna be a teacher.

I go through an approved program at the university to get a bachelor's degree.

Then I need to get into a school of education for one to two years, however long that.

I know that some universities have accelerated programs, but now you need to get into another program.

But that's only the beginning.

That's not a full credential yet.

It's enough to teach but they're gonna have to go through another two year program.

Cameron Castenda: Correct.

So, that is then they'd have a, what we call a preliminary credential.

And then after induction, it's considered a clear credential.

Gene Tavernetti: So this isn't an optional program for teachers.

So when you hire a new teacher with a credential, they have to go through the program.

Cameron Castenda: correct.

So.

Gene Tavernetti: So what's different?

I mean, what is different about the professional credential?

I. That you will provide the program for than what they learned in the first two years.

Cameron Castenda: Well, we know there's a difference between theory and practice, and so a lot of what happens in the university is a lot of theory.

And book work and study and observations, whereas when you're in the career every day, that's where the real coaching support comes in.

And we know how difficult teaching can be, especially in the first two years.

And this actually came.

As part of a study they found, you know, teachers were quitting within the first five years of teaching.

And so this was put into place as, as almost like a gradual release.

But what's different is they really get a sidekick, otherwise known as a mentor, where they're their partner, they're their Yoda.

Carrying them through for two years and really act as a thought partner because this person at this point should be able to stand alone, but with support.

So, that's really what induction does versus maybe a university program when they're first starting out in the credential program.

Gene Tavernetti: So can you talk about some of the things that you do in the induction program?

When I say some of the things you do not necessarily what you do to support, but what would be the curriculum over these two years?

Because.

Okay let's back up even further because I know that you require as the manager there, you require so many meetings, in-person meetings.

So I guess that's my question.

During those in-person meetings, what's the curriculum?

What have they done in the meantime between the meetings?

Cameron Castenda: So some of it is going through an inquiry cycle where they investigate a problem of practice and this is by their choice.

So again, it's driven by the individual and, their mentor kind of helps them craft a inquiry question that they're going to investigate.

And then through action research, they're going to solve the problem.

Then therefore giving them some tools in their toolbox some strategies, and also they're going to be measuring student growth to see if this actually worked and.

What was their growth as a teacher?

So kind of measuring that.

So that's part of it.

The other part of the program is we require training, and the training is by choice, if that makes sense.

So they have to be receiving ongoing pd, professional development.

But they get the choice of what they want to pursue and investigate.

And we hope that it ties into their goal, but it doesn't always, sometimes they wanna know about behavior, but they're really working on writing.

It's just a, you know, a way to kind of build a repertoire.

And so, we do have four meetings throughout the year.

Every program kind of approaches it differently.

We have decided to move to more in-person because we want new teachers and their mentors to be able to network and form a community of learners.

And then each, we'll call it mini conference that I offer four times a year.

There's various sessions that they get to choose from and register for, and it's all driven by.

What they wanna learn about what their goals are, and then also what we can offer.

So, it's anything from, you know, behavior empathetic approaches to teaching to differentiation 1 0 1, to I did a training on vertical learning.

So what is vertical learning and how do you do it?

So those are just a variety of things we've offered this year.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

I don't think I could write fast enough.

Put down all the questions that I have about this.

So let's talk about the inquiry.

You said that they get to choose that.

So can you give some examples of some things, some inquiry questions inquiry studies?

I can't remember the term you used.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah, it's a problem of practice or some kind of it's something that's keeping them up at night, something that they want to improve in their classroom, maybe something they wanna improve as a teacher.

And it's an area that they wanna grow in because.

You know, oftentimes the easy one is the one we know.

And so, you know, we don't always wanna pick the easy question, and just like any good, we'll say thesis statement, that's my writing background there.

You know, you want it to be loose enough to where they have options to investigate, but.

Tight enough to where it's not so broad.

It's like, you know, the ocean.

It's something kind of narrow and loose at the same time.

So it could be, you know, what are best practices to support student learning or what are the best strategies to teach a paragraph?

So it could be any of those.

But it's all driven by what they wanna improve in.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so then how do they proceed through that?

We know they have a mentor.

We know that they have you.

I know that you talked about a community, so how do they proceed through that?

What would be a timeframe for them to go through this cycle of inquiry and action research?

Cameron Castenda: Oh it's months.

So, we start in late September and they wrap up their first.

Inquiry by December.

But all the while I guess the inquiry cycle guides them through a series of questions and reflections and investigations to help them arrive there.

So we have them identify, you know, what standards would this generally meet what, if any, English learner supports.

Would you wanna embed and look at also what kind of universal design for learning strategies would you maybe wanna incorporate or again, look into?

And those are just some of the ways we kind of funnel them into an answer.

But I also have them they can attend pd, like we said, either provided by us or.

Another place.

And we know that, you know, teacher Instagram is also a great learning tool.

Even teacher TikTok YouTube, so they can go really anywhere to get information or watch videos and strategies to help them put this into practice.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Oh, every time.

Every time you have an answer.

I got more questions, so, but let's move on for a second.

Let's move on for a second because something else that you said I kind of wanna clarify for listeners, and that is, so you have your program and you said that.

Every school district.

I mean, this is gonna be required of every teacher, every new teacher to get their professional credential.

But you're in a big district, you know, you're in a fairly big, well, no, I'm gonna say it's a big district.

What happens, how do they get into programs when they're working in a small district?

Who else provides the programs, I guess is what I'm saying, asking.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah.

I know universities offer induction, most of them Cal State Fullerton for one OCDE.

So our orange County Department of Education will also offer that.

And really any Department of Ed probably has induction.

But I know that one for a fact.

Concordia University also offers a teacher induction.

And then like private schools, they can go through an LEA like us.

They could apply through our program if they wanted to.

So we partner with surrounding districts that don't have it or charters or private schools.

Gene Tavernetti: Oh, so you will have teachers from other places.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

How about vice versa?

Can if they're hired in your district, can they do induction someplace else?

Cameron Castenda: Yes, they can obviously go to Cal State Fullerton and a lot of them, they wrap their master's program with it.

So that, you know, it's a two for one.

But yeah, they're welcome to go.

They don't have to use ours.

However a lot of districts currently are offering it for free.

I. With a special grant that we have right now that'll be sunsetting next year.

So it's really advantageous of them to wanna go through a district that offers free induction.

Otherwise, you know, they'll have to pay for the program if they go to Cal State or OCDE.

Gene Tavernetti: So if a teacher comes in doing the induction at another program, they still get a district mentor.

Is that correct?

Cameron Castenda: Correct.

They are assigned a mentor.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Okay.

So we have all of these programs and, they have to be authorized.

You have to be authorized to do this.

I'm guessing, in fact, I think I was down there once when you were having a review

Cameron Castenda: Yes.

Gene Tavernetti: to, to be authorized to do this.

So do you have to submit your curriculum someplace or how does that work?

Because if you have all of these places doing this and they all come out with a California teaching license, how does that work?

Cameron Castenda: Yeah, so it is monitored by the state.

I think I attribute it like WASC for induction.

And so, a site visit team does review all of your work and also samples of candidate work and they.

Go through an accreditation process, and so my first year as the induction coordinator, I was also in an admin credential program.

And going through accreditation.

So all my worlds collided.

And it really did.

As a program director, kind of, I was really able to understand the back end of the program because I was always a mentor.

I had mentored in this program, I would say.

Except for my first year of teaching and the two years I had my kids every year I was an induction mentor and it was just one of those my favorite things to do as a teacher.

And so I knew that side of it on the supporting part in the mentoring, but I didn't know.

The paperwork part and also the accountability part of that.

And so, there's program and there's program and common standards that we have to adhere to.

And so what those auditors do is they look at all of that evidence to see are we aligned with the program?

And so it can be loose and tight at the same time because we can.

Make changes to the program as needed, so long as we adhere to their program and common standards.

Gene Tavernetti: So.

This is time for the 60 minutes part of the interview.

The tough questions.

The tough questions.

Okay.

Cameron Castenda: okay.

Gene Tavernetti: You, so far you described the the cycle of inquiry, the inquiry that they do and, this is after they've already spent two years.

Okay.

And now they're doing this.

One of the critiques that I've always had about teacher prep programs is that to be successful in a teacher prep program, it was more being successful in student behaviors versus teacher behaviors.

And so, so far the things that we have talked about.

It hasn't been like okay, we're gonna go observe you in a classroom.

Do these things.

Am I missing that part or is that part of the induction?

Because whether you I'm just gonna make a joke here.

I know you may have heard that there have been some criticisms of teacher prep programs.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah.

You know, some of the criticisms we hear is that it's additional work.

It's not meaningful, it's redundant.

I already did this.

Why do we have to do this again?

And so it really is our task to make this useful and and applicable.

And I have.

Pulled any questions that seem repetitive and I do survey them quite often to ask them like, which areas do you feel like we don't need?

And I have reduced the amount in a way of work because it was kind of repetitive.

I think the number one thing that the feedback that I get about the program.

Is their mentor, hands down.

No one's going to wanna say, you know, I like the paperwork the best.

It's that mentor who's there just for them meeting one-on-one once a week.

It's that undivided time to spend on their goals and what they need.

And also, you know, I train our mentors.

So that we have this rule, the eight, I call it an 80 20 rule.

80% the candidate is talking and you can.

Paraphrase or coach them through coaching questions.

But we try not to give advice and we try to lead them in a, you know, down a path that's successful.

But you know, I don't want to ever hear that's like the kiss of death that this, you know, this program it was pointless and just another hoop to jump.

And we get those every now and then, but.

My job, I feel like, is to create a meaningful experience and also setting in a practice that they're gonna use forever, that plan, teach, apply, rinse, and repeat.

That's what I wanna see from them.

Gene Tavernetti: well, you have served and in the, in your introduction we said that you have served as a mentor and you've served as a coach.

So when you are working with mentors, I wanna talk about this for a second because it's one of those things, sometimes we don't know the difference.

When you're working with mentors, what are their duties for these new teachers versus what you did as a coach?

Cameron Castenda: Oh, that's an interesting one.

Now I see what you mean by tough questions.

I think mentoring we, we definitely use.

That cognitive coaching approach.

And so it's leading while guiding and taking that inquiry mindset and that question stance.

So.

We train them on, you know, how to ask questions, when to ask questions.

We also train them on, you know, ways to build rapport and and that type of thing.

And then in, I think you had mentioned earlier, we do go in and.

So they do get feedback and I train the mentors on how to give them feedback.

So that's that.

When I was a coach, I lived mostly in the curriculum world where I was creating things for teachers.

And in secondary they typically don't want you in their classroom, you know?

Looking over their shoulder.

But I would model lessons every now and then.

But a lot of my time was spent researching and creating things for teachers just to make their lives easier.

And I created like a newsletter for them to get resources and materials.

So, that's I think the main difference from what I see in the different areas.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so they could go into your.

Or inductees could go into their mentor to observe a lesson.

so there are things, you know, many times I think of a mentor for a new teacher of like, you know, negotiating the Negotiating.

Like where's the photocopier?

What are the rules?

You know, what's, you know, how do I get along here?

You know, kind of a nuts and bolts type things.

And then the coaching, which is a little bit more time consuming where you need to be out of the classroom more.

You know, I kind of make a distinction that way, but you, I don't think you're really making that distinction.

You're asking those mentors to kind of do what's, ask them to do what's necessary based on their inductee.

I.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah I think it is an intuitive process in some ways because you never know what they're gonna bring you, and you never know what they're gonna need in that moment.

And I think that is the greatest challenge in being a mentor in our program.

And that's a lot of the questions I get from them.

And it's like, you know what if I don't know the answer?

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah.

Yeah.

Cameron Castenda: And that's not the point, right?

The point is to discuss and reflect and ask those probing questions to get to, to something, you know, deeper.

So I, I would and also draw out we wanna expect that every candidate probably has that in them.

We just gotta, you know, pull it out of them and know how to do that.

But I guess, you know, the mentor could also put their coach's hat on and help them curriculum wise.

I mean, they are matched.

Hopefully by credential type.

And so they are an expert in that.

And then if you're lucky enough to get one at your site, they can tell you, you know, be careful of this person and, you know, be nice to the secretary and you know, this is the copy code, but if you need another one, here's the secret copy code.

And so they can help you with the ropes if they're familiar with that too.

Gene Tavernetti: Oh, you know, it's funny.

Here's where we come to the part of the show the irony part of the show.

And you know, you talked about mentor, you talked about a cognitive coaching model and talked about a non-directive model, and then several years ago you called me up and said, would you please come down because there's a part of their induction program that they're missing.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

Cameron Castenda: Yeah, but first I wanna say how we met.

Gene Tavernetti: Oh, okay.

Cameron Castenda: So I had the pleasure of working under one of my most favorite principals, James Harden.

And I hope he listens, or if he doesn't we'll send it to him.

And he invited Dr. Jean tab Brunetti to our site and I was put on cycle to work with him.

And at first I was.

A little annoyed.

I will, I won't lie, because I had been teaching a long time, at least eight, eight plus years, maybe even 10, and I, you know, I'm like, I don't need any more help.

I'm good.

But I did it because I really respected our principal and give it a try.

And so, I, and we must have worked together, you know, three days in a row.

That's the typical cycle of building the lesson and having that one-on-one time with you.

And then you came in and you observed my class, and then we got to debrief, and I share this because it was.

There's not a lot of things that can move teachers.

What I found, unfortunately, you know, it's tough.

It's tough to change as an adult.

We know adult learning theory is an art and a craft.

And to change behavior or change the way you do things it takes a lot.

And I. I learned so much about my teaching and it really did improve the way I planned out my lessons.

And so, coming to your question now we were just coming out of COVID.

I just had started this new position in induction.

And what we were finding was that many of our new teachers had not only done their student teaching through Zoom, some of them even started teaching on Zoom.

And so we realized like we, we probably need to circle the wagons back around and.

Offer more intensive coaching, and this was a very strategic type of coaching.

And so, we brought you here and we were, you were able to work with you know, volunteers, but mostly first, second.

And we even opened it up and we had a lot of third year teachers who were out of the program that just wanted more and.

Working alongside you, I got to see your process and I, it informed me so much of where we need to work on in our lesson planning and also just the method of giving feedback.

That was really helpful on that side of it.

So I got to experience it, you know, through a teacher perspective and then.

As a consultant.

And so that was really valuable.

Gene Tavernetti: Well, you know, it's and the reason that I brought it up and talked about it as a, as.

An irony is that, as you know, you know, pretty, you know, give some pretty specific recommendations, you know, on, on how to get, on, how to get better, and um, finesse it.

I mean, it's not just, hey, this is, you know, pointing finger, this is what you need to do.

But the idea that it is more specific because it's something that they just don't know.

Like you described, you'd been teaching you were a successful teacher.

You were one of the best teachers.

That's what James told me before you even been department chair at the time.

Cameron Castenda: I was.

Gene Tavernetti: And which probably is another strategic reason that James picked you to do it.

But it wasn't that you were doing anything wrong.

It's just like, here are some things that we could do better and make your job easier and more effective.

So, so I was kind of like an ancillary, uh, piece to this induction program and I.

Cameron Castenda: I, I think to go on that point, I think teaching is learning and that was one of the messages I really tried to push through to our new teachers this year is that you always wanna be growing.

And I will say that is in my personality in general.

I think that's partly why I became a teacher because I just like learning.

But I think we have to come with that to grow and get better.

And I also mentioned to them that.

The other factors, we never know who's gonna be in our classroom.

We never know what skills they're gonna come in with.

And so we have to adjust based on that.

And if you don't really know how to adjust or maybe someone else has another idea of how you can adjust it that's the key.

And so, maybe my mindset at that time was I, you know, I had a little bit of an ego, but or big ego.

But I think that, I think we need to get used to that.

We need to get used to getting feedback, ripping the bandaid off and taking from it, you know, what can we take, what parts can we take from this to improve?

Gene Tavernetti: Well said.

Well said.

One other, one other topic before we say goodbye, and that is I know we go through cycles in California and across the nation.

You know, we have too many teachers and then we don't have enough teachers.

And every time we're in this situation now where we really need teachers, what happens is there are seem to be more alternative programs.

Showing up.

Know at one time in California you could get a credential just with a bachelor's.

And then they realized, well, that's not a good idea.

So then they started adding things and adding things back.

Until now we are where we are, where you get your preliminary and now you gotta go through an additional two years of process.

But we have lots of like, what do we have internships and.

Pre-internship and I mean, there's all sorts of things that we have.

So my question to you, as somebody who works with the folks after they've been hired, can you see any difference in the skills and knowledge that they come with based on coming from a traditional program for a university versus more alternative programs?

Cameron Castenda: I mean, without throwing anybody under the bus, I think, you know, there's some.

They're not all created equal, right?

All the programs out there I think based on if you wanna start making money and you wanna get in the classroom, you know, you could, we have a lot of interns.

I do notice they struggle and we try to support district wide with that.

But it's a steep learning curve without.

Somebody helping you without a guide on the side and you're just hoping that someone takes, you know, takes you under their wing helps you.

And we do have people out there and there are teachers that will do that.

But.

I think you can see the difference between people who had induction and who haven't, and just the struggle.

And you just have to be really strong and really ask for help and knowing who to ask to get that support without being in a program.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

To clarify, and I didn't realize this till this moment, and maybe I'm even wrong when I asked this question.

So if somebody comes in with a less than a preliminary credential from a university or someplace, do they qualify for your to be part of your program?

Cameron Castenda: No they'd have to finish their internship

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Okay.

Cameron Castenda: And then they can be enrolled in induction.

And we do offer for them because technically they would have a teaching.

Experience under their belt.

We offer and most have to, it's part of our program standards early completion option.

And so, they, we can kind of speed it along if.

They're ready and if they qualify, but for some of them, you know, who are in the classroom already as an intern, we have a lot of sped interns out there right now.

Just because, like you said, they're hard to fill.

Once they're done with that program, it's like they're student teaching.

Then they can be enrolled in induction and we do have options for them.

Gene Tavernetti: How about a mentor?

Do they get a mentor?

Cameron Castenda: They the university has them find their own mentor and, you know, it's hit or miss and I don't think they get any type of stipend.

I think it just depends, but I don't think they get any kind of like incentive like that.

It's just out of the goodness of their heart.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so as I'm thinking this through, so the type of support that they would get from a classroom if they can't cajole somebody on staff to be.

Their mentor to be their buddy.

It's what they would get from the university, like a supervising like supervision as they're doing their coursework.

Cameron Castenda: Sort of they, they'll have that, but then they'll find a teacher on campus that will agree to mentor them pro bono.

Gene Tavernetti: oh, okay.

Cameron Castenda: But not through our program.

We don't assign them a mentor or anything.

Gene Tavernetti: wow.

And the district doesn't support that there's no, or.

Cameron Castenda: I, well, we support in the way that, you know, we might have a TOSA working with them, but it's not formal like induction.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Okay.

Wow.

I hadn't thought about, wow.

Okay.

So, so sometimes the most needy, there's kind of, there's a little gap in services.

Wow.

Okay.

So you've been doing this program for a while.

What changes have you made or what changes have occurred in the program since you've been in, involved with it?

Cameron Castenda: Well, I like to think of it like generations.

So when I went through induction, it was BITA back in the day, and that was a hard one to shake that acronym.

Gene Tavernetti: Yes.

Cameron Castenda: And I was of the BITSA box.

Generation and it was these folders and you had to answer all these questions and no, slight to my mentors, but in my first year, my first mentor quit midyear and I never saw her again.

I. So I, I did a lot of that on my own, and then my second year I got assigned, you know, the one guy that said he'd do it, but like, it was I'll see you at the end of the year.

I. Let me know how that goes for

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah.

Cameron Castenda: And so I think that really impacted, obviously it made an impression on what kind of mentor I wanted to be, and it also shaped me as a teacher.

I feel like I have that resilience.

Right.

And then from there, the state kind of transitioned to this, cFAs program and it was this large binder that you'd have to carry around year one and year two.

And it was paper after paper and lots of lots of checking boxes and.

It felt like a lot of work and it was, and so I supported a lot of new teachers through that generation, and now it's all digital.

It's one page.

It's all inclusive In this one document.

I feel like it's really streamlined.

So in that way, that's how it's kind of improved.

But I've made some corrections and adjustments to the questioning.

Before it would just ask them about their English learners and I wouldn't get a lot of good responses in there.

And so I really have them reflect on their roster, you know, who is an English learner in your class?

And what can we provide them?

So I really feel like that one is targeted at supporting those learners.

And then also we've made some adjustments to UDL because that it tends to be a very, I don't know, open type of concept.

And so that one's really tough.

So I feel like we've changed questions to make 'em a little bit more, explicit.

Gene Tavernetti: Okay.

Well, in addition to that, you've got some personal stuff you're working on kind of outside some ai.

So what is that exactly that you got going?

Cameron Castenda: Just some ideas starting.

I really want to explore and possibly write a book about AI projects for students.

And I know it's very taboo right now to let students in there.

Spoiler alert, they're in there, they're doing things in there.

And so why not teach them how to use it for good and and to create useful projects.

So that's one thing.

There's tons of methods and.

Things out there to create obviously you know, presentations, but kids can make their own podcasts through there.

And so I think that would be kind of a fun project to spell out for teachers of ways to guide students, you know, in those types of projects.

So that, and then you know, my real passion not only is, you know, supporting teachers, but I. I, I love teaching writing and so I wanna explore concepts on how to write for the real world.

'cause I think a lot of writing nowadays is very formulaic and test driven.

And so I think kids need buy-in and what a better way to teach writing through real world.

Types of writing assignments.

So those are just some little projects that I have going on the side.

Gene Tavernetti: Oh, we'll be looking for that.

We'll be looking forward to that.

Cameron Castenda: I might be asking you for help.

Gene Tavernetti: oh, I thought of a name, I thought of a name to, to send you.

So we'll talk about that

Cameron Castenda: right.

Gene Tavernetti: Do you have any questions for me?

Cameron Castenda: I do because you've worked with so many teachers throughout your career and you'd have this ongoing coaching cycle, you probably know best, but what kind of advice would you give new teachers?

What skills or strategies, what are you seeing really that they need?

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I don't think you're gonna be surprised by my answer here, cam, and that is they need to be proficient.

Explicit instruction because I think let's go back to your cycle of your, of inquiry with the teachers.

I mean, if you're competent in explicit instruction, then you can eliminate that as a variable.

It's, I know that the lessons are sound.

I know that I'm, you know, I'm examining my instruction, so what else could it be?

And I think until we.

Take that out of the equation.

It just has to be a given.

You know, it's you have a undergraduate degree in explicit instruction.

Now we can start doing some additional research because there's just too many things to look at until you get there.

It doesn't mean you can't be a good teacher, but I just think it makes, it's difficult to evaluate, resources, it's difficult to evaluate, you know, how am I gonna use my adopted curriculum?

How am I gonna use this AI to support my lesson planning?

You know, all of these things, you don't have the criteria to make good judgements about.

Now, the rest of first year teaching, I'm gonna leave it to you and the mentors, but I think that is just a ba, a baseline.

I. And like you said you know, we were together.

You said it was over three days, but it was probably a total of less than three hours

Cameron Castenda: Yeah.

Gene Tavernetti: and it changed your life.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah,

Gene Tavernetti: You know, and I wouldn't have said that if you hadn't told a story, but you know, when we got together to do this work, one of the first things you told me was you actually remembered the lesson you taught.

10 years earlier,

Cameron Castenda: I

Gene Tavernetti: you know, because it made an impact.

And I think that's I just don't think they get that.

And so I have to give you kudos for recognizing that was one of the things that they needed.

And unfortunately, I would doubt that ends up as one of the questions in their inquiries, like, how do I do explicit instruction better?

So, so that would be my advice.

And so it's advice for first year teachers, but really it's advice for the people who support them at the university and like you do.

Cameron Castenda: Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

It's critical.

Gene Tavernetti: Cameron Castaneda.

It has been an absolute joy, and I knew it would be.

And any final wrap up thoughts?

Any bits of advice that you have for first year folks or for people who work with first year folks or second early in education career folks.

Cameron Castenda: I, I think, you know, once you get past the first two years.

It gets easier for sure.

And I think, like you said, what makes it easier is if you have a really good pattern of how you develop a lesson.

'cause that's your template and you can plug it in with anything.

And so I think that's it, you know, that's what's going to make this job sustainable is having this kind of template for each day for your lessons.

Gene Tavernetti: Cam, thank you.

Good advice.

Hope to talk to you soon.

Cameron Castenda: Thanks

Gene Tavernetti: If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend.

Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky.

Tesscg.

com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.