Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works

[00:00:00] Welcome to Transformative Principal. I am your host, Jethro Jones. You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones. The Transformative Principle Podcast is a proud member of the B Podcast Network. We are so excited about all the great shows that we have for educators in whatever your role. We would love to have you listen to any of the shows that we've got. 

Jethro D. Jones: If you don't have a show, why don't you let me know and I'll help you create [00:01:00] one that's just for your place. So today on the show I have Dr. Jean ti. He's been involved in education for over 40 years. I. He has served as a coach, teacher, counselor, administrator, and consultant. He's the author of two books, teach Fast, a book about the design and delivery of quality instruction, and maximizing the impact of coaching cycles. 

A book that answers many of the questions that were left unanswered in most books on instructional coaching. In 2006, gene partnered with his former high school teacher and mentor, Dr. Randy Olson, to found total education support or total educational system support, and you can find their website@tecg.com. 

The focus of tes has always been training teachers and those who support teachers in how to provide the best instruction possible. This is what I really like about Gene. He holds a core belief about children and adults. Given the right environment and proper support, everyone can improve and succeed. 

And that is evident in [00:02:00] how he talks about people, how he coaches them, and how he speaks. Gene, welcome to Transformative principles. So great to have you here. 

Gene Tavernetti: Thank you. 

Jethro D. Jones: So what's most valuable to you from our conversation today? 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I think the overall theme of everything that we talked about is respecting respecting their experience. Respecting their experiences of what they go through every day with having to plan a lesson, having to deliver a lesson to possibly 30 kids who may or may not be interested that day. 

And you need to respect that. You need to respect that because nobody is perfect and teachers don't have to be perfect. So just respect what they do and respect their time. 

Jethro D. Jones: absolutely. I think that is so key. My big takeaway from today is, is when we talk about a personal versus a professional relationship and how those are different and what that looks like. You gave me some food for thought on that and I appreciate that. Now, Jean, you [00:03:00] also have a a new podcast that you are launching that is called Better Teaching. 

And tell us about that and what your thoughts are on why you're doing that and why that's so important right now. 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I think that first of all, better teaching. Only the only stuff that works. Only stuff that works because I just think you know, I started listening to podcasts and then I only have so much time to listen to podcasts and so, I would hear they were entertaining, but they didn't help me As an educator, I want something actionable. 

I I wanna make a commitment that. If you listen to my podcast, you are gonna laugh at least once, and you are going to have at least one actionable item that something that you could, that you can do. And it doesn't have to be a big thing. Like for example when we talked about when you're observing a lesson, smile, 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. Yeah. 

Gene Tavernetti: you could you could start that 

Jethro D. Jones: [00:04:00] Yeah, there you go. There is your first only stuff that works. Start smiling. That's great. Well, Jean, that podcast is gonna be awesome. People are gonna love it. It's called Better Teaching Only Stuff That Works. You can find that anywhere you listen to podcasts. Just search for Better Teaching. 

Search for Jean Tab Brunetti. You'll find it. And you can of course go to his website@testcg.com and it's right there up in the main bar. So we're gonna get to my interview with Gene here in just a moment. 

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Jean, tell us about why coaching is important for teachers. First of all. 

Gene Tavernetti: I think everybody can be better. That's number one. Everybody can improve. I know it's cliche, but the best of the best in the world in anything, in any endeavor have somebody who's coaching them. And so I think that's important for the individual, but I also think it's important for the organization that that the best get [00:05:00] coached. Then it's okay for the rest of them. That's one of the things we found when we worked in schools. You know, we, I mean that in a staff there are people who are viewed, it doesn't matter which school you go to, there are people who are viewed as the real pros in the they've been doing it a long time, or even if they haven't been doing it a long time, they're really good. And there are people who, there are also people who are pretty good, but a little bit hesitant, don't have the confidence to have somebody come in and talk to them because it is you are being vulnerable. if the best says I have a coach, I've worked with this guy it was worth the time. Then it's gonna be easy for, it's gonna be easier for everybody else to say, yeah. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna step up and see what this is like. 

Jethro D. Jones: I think that's a really important distinction for people to hear [00:06:00] that the way that I say it is that it's not just that they have a. Coach that is specifically designated as a coach, but they're always looking for ways to get better and learn and grow and develop. And when you create a formalized relationship with a co coach where that is their role, I. 

That changes things. So I think great teachers, great principals are always looking to get better. But the ones who really excel at that are the ones who go looking for a coach, find a coach, and use that coach on a regular basis. How would you say the differences between those two of just looking for ways to get better and actually engaging with a coach? 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I think that if you have, if there's somebody designated to be a coach, on staff, they should have some skills. They should have something to offer. And one of the things that I say principals should say is [00:07:00] that we have a coach. I want everybody to meet with the coach. Or even stronger than that, everybody's going to meet with the coach it may be that the person who just wants to get better doesn't need a formal, I think that's the word you used coaching relationship. You have a conversation and it may be that the coach during this conversation may be able to connect them with somebody or. There, there's other ways to help when you get to that level. And I when I say to that level, and that's the level of expertise where somebody is tweaking things and so, I think it's critical before the coach works with anybody, that they know the level of expertise of the person to whom they're talking. 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. So what does that mean? Talk about that a little more. 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, that means I, I think one of the biggest mistakes that coaches make when they begin to work, [00:08:00] when they begin to work with staff is they have an agenda and they should have an agenda. There should be some established way in the school. That this is how we do things at this site. that's usually what that thing is, or how they do things at that site is usually determined by some sort of, in some sort of collaborative way, looking at data and saying this is what we need to do. These are some things that we need to do. And there are some decisions made in whatever group process that is made. And. Usually there are different levels of those things being implemented already. You know, in, in education there's nothing brand new. there, there is nothing brand new. So if you go into classrooms and there's we've established this year that we are going to, we want kids to talk to each other more. 

We're going to, we're going to emphasize oral communication during instruction during [00:09:00] entire day. And if I go into Jethro's class. For the first time to meet with him as a coach. And I started saying, oh Jethro, here are all the ways you could do this. You could do this, you could do that. Whereas if I had only taken the time to drop in a few times to observe what Jethro does and thinking now he's not only doing this, he's exceeding what the expectations are. I think a big mistake is that coaches have is not knowing. The teachers in the classroom before they provide any feedback at all. 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I, that, that makes a lot of sense. You know, we had a, one of the schools I was assistant principal at, we had a process where we were going through, we were checking on maximizing opportunities to respond. And so all of our observations were about how many opportunities did the kids have. To respond. 

And in that approach it [00:10:00] was worthwhile and beneficial for us to do that. But if we went in and like you said, just said, here's how you can help kids increase opportunities to respond without knowing what they were doing already. Came across as condescending. They thought that we didn't know who they were, we didn't care about what they were doing already, and that we were just preaching to them what they should be doing rather than working with them to improve their practice and telling people what they should do versus working with them to improve their practice. 

Are two different things. How do you deal with that in your coaching? 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, I make a distinction when I talk to coaches, when I'm training coaches I draw a distinction between personal relationships and professional relationships. And of all, it's just stipulated relationships are important. You know, you have to have a relationship with people. But here's one of the ways in which I, differ from a lot of people who talk about [00:11:00] coaching and developing relationships. In fact, I do a presentation called developing Relationships without Serving Chocolate. Because a lot of the advice is about developing personal relationships. But the metaphor that I use is with a doctor. And if I ask somebody, you like your doctor? And they would say, if it's affirmative, if they do like their doctor, I'd say, why? Well, because, she always listens to what I have to say. She always takes the time. She knows who I am before she says anything. And so. that's to me, that's the professional relationship that I think coaches wanna develop. 

Do you need to be a nice person do you need to be a decent person and have other relationships? Yes. But a teacher doesn't care. Know that you brought chocolate to the meeting. If you go in and do what we just discussed a [00:12:00] minute ago, just come in and start telling them what they need to do without knowing who they are as a teacher. And so making that distinction between developing that personal relationship and a professional relationship because most of the time in coaching. When I'm coaching teachers and you know this, I mean, you go in and you see a brand new teacher and you walk out and you say, that person's a teacher. They have a lot of things to learn, but that person's a teacher. And then you're gonna talk to that person differently than someone who's, you're wondering what in the world they forgot them to, to this place. So it is that profess knowing them professionally, they're gonna appreciate. advice you give because they know, you know them, they know you listen to them, you're going to, you're gonna help them get better. You can help them get better. 

Jethro D. Jones: I, and this is a, an important distinction that I'm glad you're bringing up [00:13:00] because so much of. Our conversations now, and even my conversations are about being your authentic self and bringing your whole self to work. And there's an argument to be made for not bringing your whole self to work and being professional at work. 

And I've said that before, that you should be your whole self. And now as I'm thinking about it, I'm like actually, I don't know that you should and maybe you should be. You should. Be who you need to be for that job that you, you make a promise when you take that position and step into that role that you're going to act in a certain way, and a lot of the other parts of you may not align with that. 

And that's okay. That's not the end of the world. What would you say to that? I'm still working through this, so I don't have the right answer. 

Gene Tavernetti: I one of the things again, I mentioned that it's important that there's a focus. For the coaching. so I have, times I [00:14:00] have the advantage in that I have been brought in because people identify me as working with schools on this focus. So I will actually provide initial training, and it is always surprising to me during the training there's a, there's the teacher behavior during a training. And then there's their classroom behavior. I'm I've got these two teachers and I, in my mind, I could picture these two teachers in my mind. You know, it's, they ask a question and it's like, could you repeat it louder? I don't I couldn't hear you. And then you go into their classroom and they're this whole different person. 

I mean, they're just a bundle of excitement. And but, and I'm not saying you have to be that because you could be effective and still be. Just being effective. You know, you don't have to be an entertainer, so, whatever. I think your authentic self, you can have an authentic teaching self, possibly because there are when [00:15:00] I'm working with teachers as a coach, I attempt to be as, professional as possible. And when I say professional, on what I'm there 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 

Gene Tavernetti: because I wanna respect the teacher's time. On the other hand, if you know me, if you know me at all, you'd say, man, that guy is goofy. But I try to I just for time, I wanna respect people's time. 

It's not that I, eventually you wouldn't see that side of me but if we've only got 15 minutes, we're going to, it's gonna be all business, 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. Well, and I appreciate that. And as I've gotten to know you, I've starting to started to see some of that goofiness also, but what I feel the same way. Like I'm here to do a job and so the way that we interact is to the purpose of that job. Now you said something in there that was just like a little. 

Little aside, little, but I wanna drill down to it because many of the. I wanna say this in the least offensive way possible, but it's not gonna work. So I'm just gonna say it in the offensive way. [00:16:00] Many coaches have tried to create teachers in their own image and say, what I do is the best and therefore you should do what I do. 

And you made that comment that you don't have to be an entertainer and you may be shy and timid in faculty meeting, but loud and boisterous in front of your own students. But the thing is you can be whatever kind of teacher you need to be that's going to be effective in the classroom. And it's not about your extrovertedness or your introvertedness or how loud you are or anything like that. 

It's about how effective you are at accomplishing what you're trying to do. So talk about that a little bit and how a totally shy person could be an effective teacher or whatever. 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, a couple stories, and I think you, you know me well enough now that I've always got a story, but I was working with a a young, I say young, everybody's young to me now, [00:17:00] but teacher, she was, 28, I think 28 years old. Usually gender's not important, but it's important in this story. Okay, so she's a coach and she's talking to me about issues that she's had and she says I'll do model lessons. Well, this teacher had also been the hair cheerleader. Okay, so she's in the class. She goes, I can always make up a wrap to go with the content. It's just kind of a so she's in doing a a model lesson. 

She's modeling how to do something, which I don't like to do model lessons anyway, but that's another topic. So she's in there doing it, and she does this rap. And and I'm thinking to myself, well, could see how that works for you, but I ain't gonna rap. You know, I'm just not. So, so there's that and the other things that a lot of things that I share with with coaches are power phrases you know, [00:18:00] things that you could say over and over again. But I also have a list of things to never say. And one of the things to never say is, let me tell you how I do 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 

Gene Tavernetti: because you know, who cares how you would do it? Plus there's an added that may appear because you have some teachers in the back of their mind saying, well, if you were so good, why did you leave the classroom? 

And now why are you a coach? that's one of the phrases I say, do not ever say, this is how I would do it. Now, if you have an idea, you know that might work based on how you did it. Say, I saw a teacher do this once. What do you think? And it's, and it changed it. It did, but I didn't tell 'em. 

I don't tell him that. But it, it's those little things you know, that, does that make a difference in continuing that professional relationship, whether they're gonna listen to you or not? 

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I learned that phrase I saw a teacher do this when I was [00:19:00] a 29-year-old assistant principal and had to start coaching. Teachers who were almost double my age. And that was challenging to be sure. And the thing is. Like you said, there are effective ways to teach and there are good ways to do things and there are not good ways. 

Jethro D. Jones: And sometimes you can see not good things happening and you don't have to even have a teaching degree to see that. There have been times where parents have complained about something going on in the classroom when they were in there volunteering and they're like, 

Gene Tavernetti: Yes. 

Jethro D. Jones: know how to teach. I'm just a volunteer, but this was not good. 

Like in no way, shape, or form. 

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 

Jethro D. Jones: We need to work on this. What I also like about that cheerleader story is you can say something like, this is how I did it, but then you have to say. What does that look like for you? What is your interpretation? What is your application of how I did that? 

Rather than saying follow my lead, like, you can't make it about [00:20:00] you should be like me. You have to make it about, this is my experience, this is what I've seen but you are your own person. How does it relate back to you? 

Gene Tavernetti: Well, and another thing is that that same thought going, I'm thinking about junior high teachers and throughout K 12. Throughout K 12, the teachers for the most part match the behavior of the students at that level. if I'm working with middle school teachers, we're gonna be goofy. Because if you're not, if you're not silly, if you're not there with them, if that's not okay with you, you're gonna have big, you're gonna have big trouble. You know? So, so there, there's that. But another part of the, another part of the answer is that when I'm doing the training, I wanna provide methods. 

I wanna provide techniques that work regardless. You know, regardless of [00:21:00] the of your personality, in fact I am a real believer in coaching cycles and my coaching cycle is different than others. So let me just explain that for a second. first of all, before I explain the coaching cycle, let me just say that we over complicate everything. We overcomplicate everything. We take way too long. We don't give enough credit to the teachers to pick stuff up quickly. I like to be sure that when I'm interacting again, I'm respecting their time and making things work. So my coaching cycle is we'll meet for 45 minutes or so to talk about a lesson that they will be teaching the next day. And during this planning time, I am attempting to model how they would collab, plan a lesson collaboratively. Because to me the whole idea is to get the teachers not only to be able to plan lessons effectively, but to be able to move [00:22:00] to co-teach with somebody, and then ultimately in their PLC and so, so modeling how to do things together. So when we're doing that, I'm always saying things like what are my ex, what are the expressions I like? If I have an idea and I'll say, Jethro. Let me tell you my idea. If you like it, smile and say, I like it. If you don't like it, just smile. I want them to have the opportunity like it's, and I keep saying, this is your lesson. 

This is your lesson. I'm just trying to model how to, and then I'll, I will tell them, I'm just gonna make bullet points on what we have to do. But I know you have your style. Of how you're going to present it. should know that style already before I'm in that room with them because of the other times that I have been in the room to develop this professional relationship. So that's the first part of the coaching cycle. Second part of the coaching cycle is observing the lesson and in. And one of the things that I tell the, [00:23:00] I tell coaches, and it's funny that. Nobody's ever told them this before. I said these teachers, I don't care who they are, I don't care how much experience, I don't care what they told you. They're gonna be nervous. They're gonna have some anxiety. When you're watching that lesson, first of all, do not bring any sort of device in there. Don't bring a computer, don't gonna take notes, okay? But don't bring anything in that's going to detract. You're seeming attention. The other thing that I tell them, that teacher's gonna look at you throughout the lesson. Every time that teacher's looking at you, you better be smiling. I don't care what's happening. Because every time they see you write something, every time they see a look on their face they're just thinking, oh, what's going on? 

What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? Again, regardless who they are. Regardless of their experience. So I can't tell you the number of coaches who I've worked with who said I've [00:24:00] never heard that before, but, 

Jethro D. Jones: Well, 

Gene Tavernetti: And I'm, 

Jethro D. Jones: and Jean, this is where the coaching work that I do on the saboteurs and the sage in your mind. All that's happening there is that they're looking at you and the saboteur in their mind is saying, this is why the coach is not pleased with what you're doing unless you're smiling. That's it. 

Like it is a totally 100% natural thing for them to experience that everybody has, they feel judged by anything that you're doing because you are in there. That's it. Like, so if you are distracted, they're gonna feel judged and that they're not doing good enough. If you are, if you have a look on your face that is just like straight face, they're gonna think they're doing something wrong. 

That is just a natural thing, and unless you do a lot of work to overcome that in yourself, those thoughts and feelings come into your mind all the time. And that's what my coaching focuses on with school leaders is how do you overcome those saboteurs when they come into your mind, and how do you. [00:25:00] Not immediately go there. 

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. Yeah. and the reality is if I'm working with a teacher who, a less experienced teacher the reality is even though I am gonna stay the entire lesson, I. One caveat on that, we determine head type, how long the lesson should take. So, so if I'm in, if I've been watching the first grade lesson, said, you should be done at 30 minutes or less. 

If not I'm leaving. 'cause I gotta go someplace anyway, but I am staying for the entire lesson. and oh, I lost my 

Jethro D. Jones: That's 

Gene Tavernetti: So, 

Jethro D. Jones: meet, then observe, and next. 

Gene Tavernetti: Okay. And then the third part is the debrief. And this is another thing that I tell coaches that I'm training is this is not a time, is not a time that you are going to remediate anything 

Because these teachers, there's two things going on. One is a time issue, okay? We're [00:26:00] taking time away. I always respect time. I. The other thing is, again, there is a level of anxiety. You know, there when you have the, when are you least likely to remember something, when you're anxious, when you're stressed. so I tell them and I say, I make a big deal of it. I say, you know what, don't. We know each other. Between the two of us, we could talk forever. So I'm gonna set my timer and I take my phone out and I set it. I said, we're gonna be done in 15 minutes. And that's my commitment to you. And so during that time the big thing that I wanna do during that time is I wanna know how the teacher evaluated their own lesson. Because you're not gonna have people in there all the time. What did you think, and I have three questions that I ask and I said one is, you know what, I have a very small sample size being in your classroom. how do you think the lesson went? How was the lesson? How did the lesson go different than [00:27:00] how we planned it? 

And then third, anything you'd do different next time. And I, when I ask those questions, I say, answer them in any order. Answer them holistically however you wanna do it. I just want them to start talking about what they, they thought about the lesson, and what they did well. you know, and the reality is, here's what I was gonna say before, teacher that is so good that we talked about earlier, probably have a list of 12 little tiny things that teacher might do, but the teacher that's struggling, it might be one big thing that's gonna solve a lot of 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 

Gene Tavernetti: So, 

Jethro D. Jones: Jean, this is a really important piece of finding the, what I always say is the smallest. Action you can take that'll have the biggest impact and focusing on that thing. And so if it is a classroom management thing, for example, and if the teacher just had rearranged the classroom so that she could get to different parts of the room easier and [00:28:00] quicker so that she could be walking around the whole entire time, that would solve so many little other problems that. 

Just would not be an issue. I observed one classroom one time, and this one sticks out in my mind where the teacher, she had to be at the front of the room. She was using a document camera, and the only way that she could get to these two boys that were goofing off in the back was by going around the long way and then going all the way over to them. 

And so she had to be yelling at them across the room the entire time. And I was like, this is just not gonna work. And. There's, if you just stood by them, it would be different. So moving their seats up or rearranging the classroom so she could get there faster, those little things would've solved so many problems that ended up happening later, and that had nothing to do with the actual content of how she was teaching, but that is the kind of thing where a little thing could make a big difference. 

Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. Well, one of the things that like I said, what I'm observing a [00:29:00] lesson. Let's go back to the observation point. I'm making lots of notes and some of the notes I'm making are, I always want to include some quote of the teacher that was powerful and again, I'll, of it's theatrics, but I'll say I'll look at my notes. 

I said I wrote this down 'cause I wanted to get it right because when you said this, the reaction of the kids. So then she knows I'm paying attention to to, to what's going on. But again, choosing what to talk about with the teachers by the, so I've got a whole list of things. I got half a dozen, dozen things to talk about with the teacher. One of the first things I wanna talk about is what they wanna talk about. So, so they're gonna bring something up, oh, you know what, oh, what would I do differently? Wow. If I think I would do this next time. And I'll say, wow, it's interesting. That's exactly what I wanted to talk to you about. Let's talk about that a little bit. 

And so is it [00:30:00] exactly, it's one of the, it's one of the things, is it the, what you just talked about that leverage point? Maybe, but guess what? I'll add the leverage point on. I'll add the leverage point on. And so that's where I'm a little bit different. Instead of meeting with a teacher ahead of time and saying, so what are your goals? 

What do you wanna work on? No, no, no. Let's do the lesson. Let's have some context for a conversation. Now you've done the lesson. Now what do you think you wanna work on? Okay, let's work on that. So, just, I think. For the, I treat teachers, I have a lot of respect for what they do, it's hard work. And there are many teachers, especially these days, I mean, after covid, I don't know what the teacher training program was like, you know where you were. 

But teachers got credentialed without ever having been in a classroom and they just have a whole lot to learn. I just don't think they're ready to answer a question, well, what do you wanna work on? They have no idea what they need to work [00:31:00] on. so, so I wanna see them working in context see how they evaluate what they did. And because many times they're selling themselves short on something, say, no, no, no, no. You know, I mean, I know we may have planned something in a lesson and the teacher doesn't do it. Maybe it's some activity Ask him, how did you, how you didn't do this. 

Oh, I just didn't know if the kids were ready. And I tell 'em, you know what? could get your kids to do anything. I've seen you, I've seen how your kids respond. You need to try stuff. you need to have faith in yourself because I see what you're 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And I totally agree and I think that this approach of of talking about what they can do and what it looks like, and then observing 'em and then debriefing, I think that's powerful. Is there another step in the coaching cycle, or is it those three? 

Gene Tavernetti: It's those three. When I work I'm an outsider working, but part of the [00:32:00] agreement in the contract with me is that I'm always gonna have either an administrator with me. And or an instructional coach because when I'm observing a lesson, I want to calibrate with an administrator or coach what we're seeing. Say, did you see this? Do you notice this? Because sometimes they, they don't. So, so that's important. And then have them watch what we just described in the debrief. But what didn't happen in the debrief, how to fix what they need to fix, the next step. Usually when I'm working at a school. Another one of the phrases that I'll have when I'm debriefing, I'll pretend to turn on a tape recorder and I say, boy, I wish I'd had taped this because I talked to every teacher about this today. And then I'll point to the coach or the administrator say, I'm sure you're gonna have a little PD after school PD on this, because everybody could work on it. But the idea is I'm not fixing them there because of the anxiety [00:33:00] timer goes off. Okay. You know. We're gonna commit to this. I know you gotta get back to your classroom, but these are the things and we'll check in and then it, then at another time to do that, I. 

Jethro D. Jones: That all makes sense. So me observe, debrief, check in. I think those are all. Great ways. The, those are all essential steps in the coaching cycle. I like that. It's simple. I think that's important. I like that you set a timer and that you don't, I mean, literally you could talk for hours about a single lesson, especially if you are a nerd who loves teaching and dissecting that so. 

I think it's good to have limits on that. So the last question that I ask in each of my interviews is, what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative leader like Eugene? 

Gene Tavernetti: I think the understanding. Their role is not the coach's role. The role of coaches in my mind has developed. It's what principals used to [00:34:00] do they had time. You know like, what do you do? Well, you're gonna, you're gonna nurture your teachers, you're gonna bring 'em along, but now you've got 50 people on your staff and it's just, you just can't do it. But. So the coach is going to help teachers get better, but what the principal can do is not screw that up. Okay. And not get in the way. So, for example, the principal says as we agreed after looking at our data last year and our end of the year meeting and this is what we decided our focus is gonna be. So Jean is going to be working with. Everybody, gene, you're gonna, everybody's gonna meet with Gene talk about these. Notice the principal didn't say you're gonna go through coaching and you're gonna but you're gonna meet with Gene. So they can set up a lot of the communication to be, the principal sends out an email In keeping with our goals for the [00:35:00] year Jean is gonna be coming through classrooms and observant. 

You do not need to prepare. is just for Jean to get to know who you are as a teacher and determine the needs of the staff, something like that. So that it's not you know, we're trying to fix people. 'cause that's another thing that, that principals do. They say, okay Jean great. You're coaching. 

You're gonna go work with these people. They're on an improvement plan, Mr. Principal, those are your people. Those aren't my people. And then the other thing, because the teachers see, oh, you only work with the teachers on improvement plans. Why would you be seeing me? What did the principal tell you? And so, so those are a couple things that I think that the principal can do and let them know that they're part of. Our system of improvement. We have mentors that do they help you navigate your first couple years of teaching, but they don't have time to coach you [00:36:00] in instruction. 

They don't have time to do that. The coaches will you have content area specialists. Okay. The coach can recommend so that there's a cycle of a system of improvement. There's the PLC, so everything fits together. So that's where I think principals can be Transformative by describing the system of support exists in almost every school, but doesn't operate as a system. 

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, and I like that idea of understanding that you are part of a system and that it's, there's multiple ways to help someone. It's not all on your shoulders. It's not all on the coaches. Shoulders. It is everybody working together, and I think if we take that approach, that'll be really powerful. Once again Dr. 

Jean ti you can go to his website at tess T-E-S-S-C g.com and you can listen to his podcast. Excited to have him here on the program. Jean, thanks so much for being part of Transformative principle today. 

Gene Tavernetti: Thank you, Jethro. Enjoyed it very much. 

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